Message from @Weez
Discord ID: 620559984719036428
It would allow those federal states to exist and give people more localised control, but what powers the states have and how they’re managed, etc is up for debate. For sure.
Right, so federalism wouldn't be anti federal state, just anti... radical self-governance
Yes.
It’s obviously more centralised than I imagine he would like.
I mean, what one would like or wouldn't like is a tough question for a debate in itself (for example you're utilitarian, and I'm mostly anti-utilitarian, with virtually no exceptions, and this would certainly cause a heated exchange of opinions), but at least when discussing these things, how these principles overlap should certainly be understood first
As I understand it, its in the very nature of federalism to see people as numbers, not as beings to respect equally under all circumstances
Yeah agreed. You need a base understanding, somewhere to stand and then build from.
And I put no emphasis on "equally", but on "respect"
A federation, by its very nature, does not respect man, unless I have a fundamental misunderstanding about that
It certainly does not respect a man's freedom
It depends on the federation and what it has in place. A constitution can be used to ensure rights / freedoms of citizens for example.
I agree to you, to an extent. The federal government does not ‘respect’ the individual, because it has no need to.
That’s the role of the federal state.
The individual states, or more local institutions deal with the individual.
The role of the federal state IMO is to maximise happiness for as many as possible
Done through policies such as, universal healthcare, budget application, tax policy, etc.
As long as MORE people are economically well off, I personally don’t care about giving them uber freedoms.
Right, so it must be utilitarian
Not neccessarily egalitarian, but it could be of course
Sure, like anything really
But, generally those go together
And what I’d support.
Right, so that's one of the issues of utilitarianism. Both within and without the group of utilitarians (e.g. federalists), there's a fundamental disagreement about egalitarianism, and this causes many injustices
Some believe that a convergence to equality (whichever one) is good, some don't, and this divide questions the legitimacy of utilitarianism within its own governance
And then there are anti-utilitarians (like me) who question the legitimacy of the whole governance.
Reconciling all these groups on any level is impossible.
I agree, which is probably why we will just get slow doses of it over time.
Doses of what?
Egalitarianism
In my view, this is the way society is headed anyway.
It *seems* whether people disagree with egalitarianism or not, they’re slowly getting more of it.
For example, more and more countries are becoming socially liberal, something that pushes egalitarianism.
That seems impossible, there will always be those with most of the power, and those with virtually none
The argument for that is, the power difference can be lowered
Both socially and economically
And that’s what you see happening today. Government and parties attempting to do that.
It's a paradox, if you strive to create equality of power and you need power to do so, then you're creating a power imbalance
The harder you try to create a power equality, the less you can actually have it
The argument for that then would be, remove the barriers to getting that power. IE, allow people to run for office and government.
So even if there’s a power imbalance there, anyone could get that by running for office and getting elected by their peers.
That's too inefficient, no one would win