The Netherlands is a lost cause because they had no church to protect its people.

but then Erdogan came along and started reviving a sunni caliphate

Then all the Muslims have come in and dominate their political left.

I don't think you're quite understanding how secularism works

This is definitely, not a good time to separate church from state, hence I went near the top left.

No, I think it doesn't work for France either.

no...... top left would enforce atheism..... I would know

Not neccessarily

Hitler for example enforced a different, twisted form of Christianity

Yeah and I wanted to enforce atheism. I didn't want to have a religion be in control, however, look at Holland and find out how close they came to destroying things and how Muslim they have all become.

also you keep conflating 'church' to only refer to christianity..... you don't seem to understand

You can't enforce atheism

Wait I will show you Holland.

Too many people want to be religious

no, don't bother

you're not getting it

secular means NO religion in government

not chritianity, or islam, or judaism, or hinduism, or sikhs, or budhism, nothing

@Jokerfaic

https://www-worldbulletin-net.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.worldbulletin.net/haber/amp/130103?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQEKAFwAQ%3D%3D#aoh=15673234179055&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.worldbulletin.net%2Fislamic-world%2Fdutch-muslim-politician-launching-new-islamic-party-h130103.html

I don't see how you keep trying to claim this would benefit muslims

Simple, selection bias

I find it tough to not have one against the other and then I want , nothing to do with any of them. I think that Islam is definitely used politically

any religion can manipulate politics. its an ideology like any other, and as such is inherently expansionist

and trying to play one against the other will only ensure whichever one wins will be permenantly entrenched in the system for centuries to come

At the moment, they will have a problem trying to divide it from the state in the Netherlands because they had no religion to protect them against it to begin with.

So, I have a problem with people in Europe not identifying themselves as a once Christian nation.

you realise this is the same logic that led the US government to support jihadists and warlords in africa and the middle east simply to oppose the Soviets

one cancer is not less lethal than the other

secular government is plenty effective at holding back Islam. Look at Saddam's Bathists

@Jokerfaic it's Holland hence the reason why I don't live there. I can see other countries with strong ties to their religious, Christianity , like Spain and France for example. Clinging on for dear life to their traditions. But , boy are the USA one walking contradiction.

They don't have a higher power to govern them like the UK have

You're really not listening to a word I'm saying.

@Jokerfaic but I want a church to govern the UK. So I am listening. I just don't want the church of England to be detached from government.

That's why I am torn.

Then I'm afraid we won't find a resolution to our differences

I just think America has no religion at all and it is a melting pot for trouble.

then I must inquire what country you're actually referring to

America is still and has been a majority christian nation

with a majoirty of outspoken evangelical government officers

many openly calling for christian law over democratic law

No it has no actual denomination interweaved with decision making in senate