Yeah I am lower central left . I nearly crossed the line and went top left, when I was angry but , no. I am always bottom, liberal and center

I don't like secularlism. I am not into the whole thing. You either integrate or, fuck off as far as I am concerned.

The political compass has issues. But the biggest issue is that people do not understand even the political compass.

Social programs only work with those whom want to integrate .

secularism has nothing to do with social programs

@ETBrooD I have to admit, it took me a while. I even tried different tests out as well.

its the separation of church and state

Not into it. We need the church to wake up and protect us from the crazy other religions. Then we can, be free.

I mentioned it because its something that keeps me anchored to the left half

not just christian church, ANY church

religion should have no place in any government

Yeah they creep in ... And you know whom I am talking about! Look at the Netherlands!

Mustafa Kemal Atatürk secularized Turkey into a functional democracy while still being a heavily muslim nation

The Netherlands is a lost cause because they had no church to protect its people.

but then Erdogan came along and started reviving a sunni caliphate

Then all the Muslims have come in and dominate their political left.

I don't think you're quite understanding how secularism works

This is definitely, not a good time to separate church from state, hence I went near the top left.

No, I think it doesn't work for France either.

no...... top left would enforce atheism..... I would know

Not neccessarily

Hitler for example enforced a different, twisted form of Christianity

Yeah and I wanted to enforce atheism. I didn't want to have a religion be in control, however, look at Holland and find out how close they came to destroying things and how Muslim they have all become.

also you keep conflating 'church' to only refer to christianity..... you don't seem to understand

You can't enforce atheism

Wait I will show you Holland.

Too many people want to be religious

no, don't bother

you're not getting it

secular means NO religion in government

not chritianity, or islam, or judaism, or hinduism, or sikhs, or budhism, nothing

@Jokerfaic

https://www-worldbulletin-net.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.worldbulletin.net/haber/amp/130103?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQEKAFwAQ%3D%3D#aoh=15673234179055&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.worldbulletin.net%2Fislamic-world%2Fdutch-muslim-politician-launching-new-islamic-party-h130103.html

I don't see how you keep trying to claim this would benefit muslims

Simple, selection bias

I find it tough to not have one against the other and then I want , nothing to do with any of them. I think that Islam is definitely used politically

any religion can manipulate politics. its an ideology like any other, and as such is inherently expansionist

and trying to play one against the other will only ensure whichever one wins will be permenantly entrenched in the system for centuries to come

At the moment, they will have a problem trying to divide it from the state in the Netherlands because they had no religion to protect them against it to begin with.

So, I have a problem with people in Europe not identifying themselves as a once Christian nation.

you realise this is the same logic that led the US government to support jihadists and warlords in africa and the middle east simply to oppose the Soviets

one cancer is not less lethal than the other