And we don’t have to let it dominate us or innately be forced to accept it

Yall Rock just so you know

We control the machines not the other way around

@TheBadfish ill suck your cock faggot

nothin gay about gettin your dick sucked my man, only gay to suck a dick

@Death in June Not 1:1, but it is definitely a variable in the equation. other factors do influence pricing of course (logistical issues, capital etc.)

If you think we can resist the onset of automation forcibly, you don't understand industry and economy

Again though- you guys don't seem to realize the trends already indicate corporate servitude and an oligarchy in control of your politics. Mass automation, in this environment, is absolutely unsustainable. We'll be eating the wealthy alive in the streets by that point.

Overall we’re not talking about automation to allow X worker to do a job better. We’re talking about automation to make the worker innately removed from the equitation. Outside a couple technical hands.

Automating things that can be automated is simply a superior solution, no matter how you feel about it. It's our responsiblity to attempt to wield that power for the benefit of the masses and not to let the abusive corporations lead the way.

In any case, i'm not here to persuade you about it. I'm just saying, if you are a proponent of UBI or minimum wage, then you have to keep these factors in mind. How income baselines actually help the capitalist class reduce the purchasing power of the average consumer, while politicians think (or at least tries to make you think) that it will increase the purchasing power of the average consumer.

Yes, and that is literally the exact same argument used by anti-industrialists in the 1890s

And we’re they innately wrong?

i'm not sure that minimum wage generally serves to reduce the purchasing power of the average consumer

Yes

horses versus EVERYTHING ain't an argument.

Yes

I agree

You seem to have some bit hindsight 20/20 at play here.

No

if it has any utility to the capitalist class it would be 1. it can help to price out new competitors of the market and 2. it's an easy political ploy to get elected

We experienced dips and depressions, but the economy never was crushed in the way anti-industrialists predicted

You can do it

In my country, this is one of the reasons why the labour unions push employers into collective contracts where there's always a minimum salary increase for all employees in any given business, which correponds nearly 1:1 with the inflation goals of the central bank.

@TheBadfish That's hardly the point though, the point is how fast the changes come before the markets correct themselves.

You underestimate the market's ability to react to changing circumstances

So even if you don't get a significant payraise as an employee, you can be somewhat assured that at least your current salary will not have it's purchasing power reduced overtime due to inflation of the currency.

there's a differences between the move from agricultural work to industrial work tho

There will, of course, be turbulence but if you think automation is some ultimate doom to the american worker/wage you're ignorant of how the economy reacts to the world and its advances

industrial work is unskilled

@TheBadfish You won't be feeling that way if you just so happen to live on the streets.

won't a heavily automated economy greatly increase the ratio of skilled to unskilled labor?

It doesn't matter how you feel about something that happens, but you can always recognize why and how it happened

The unskilled/skilled labor argument is also dumb, you then flood people into school, ok, that's EXACTLY LIKE THE MINIMUM WAGE PROBLEM!

i mean, you can put people in school

Sure I'd be pissed if I got my job automated, but that doesn't change the fact that the economy is going to react and people will find work elsewhere

doesn't necessarily mean they have the capacity to actually learn the skills that are needed

and i mean with the demographic trends in america we're certainly trending toward a stupider society

also you have to consider the availability of skill/trade knowledge now compared to the intra-industrial period

But it still floods the labor market!

What do you think will happen to about 80% of the population in a society where all the goods and services are automated?