You can absolutely maintain a healthy version of capitalism if you force its hand, but currently all signs indicate oligarchy. You don't counter with Marxism, not sure why you think I am, that's childish.

Sure, that's why a healthy capitalistic system requires checks and balances to prevent corporate takeover and consumer/worker abuse

@Redxl That may be so. But my point is that neither UBI nor increased minimum wage will ever solve that particular issue. Introduce UBI and the capitalists will just raise the prices to "fit" the UBI, leaving the average consumer with pretty much the same purchasing power as before (salaries will also probably be adjusted accordingly). Raise the minimum wage, and they'll do the same thing.

And i'm not just talking about the companies selling DVD's, this will happen with ALL of them.

I'm not saying you're a marxist kek, try to read better my friend

And there really isn’t a check to automation it’s just assumed it’s innately a good thing

I said you're making the same fundamental argument that Marx did on the evils of industrialization and why we needed to switch to communism before the industrial machines made everyone inextricably poor

i don't think rises in price necessarily correspond 1:1 to minimum wage increases

That the trucker who lost his job will be the drone pilot next or something

automation itself isn't good or bad, it's just a force, a tool

Both UBI and increases to minimum wage are basically just political red herrings. It's a talking point for ambitious politicians who want to make it seem like they're gonna make things better "for the little guy", but in the end all it does is maintaining the status quo for the little guy and his purchasing power.

anyone got a spare hell let loose key by any chance?

@Seven Proxies lol, that's exactly what I argued, "UBI will merely increase the baseline"

a nigga trying to get em games

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And we don’t have to let it dominate us or innately be forced to accept it

Yall Rock just so you know

We control the machines not the other way around

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@Death in June Not 1:1, but it is definitely a variable in the equation. other factors do influence pricing of course (logistical issues, capital etc.)

If you think we can resist the onset of automation forcibly, you don't understand industry and economy

Again though- you guys don't seem to realize the trends already indicate corporate servitude and an oligarchy in control of your politics. Mass automation, in this environment, is absolutely unsustainable. We'll be eating the wealthy alive in the streets by that point.

Overall we’re not talking about automation to allow X worker to do a job better. We’re talking about automation to make the worker innately removed from the equitation. Outside a couple technical hands.

Automating things that can be automated is simply a superior solution, no matter how you feel about it. It's our responsiblity to attempt to wield that power for the benefit of the masses and not to let the abusive corporations lead the way.

In any case, i'm not here to persuade you about it. I'm just saying, if you are a proponent of UBI or minimum wage, then you have to keep these factors in mind. How income baselines actually help the capitalist class reduce the purchasing power of the average consumer, while politicians think (or at least tries to make you think) that it will increase the purchasing power of the average consumer.

Yes, and that is literally the exact same argument used by anti-industrialists in the 1890s

And we’re they innately wrong?

i'm not sure that minimum wage generally serves to reduce the purchasing power of the average consumer

Yes

horses versus EVERYTHING ain't an argument.

Yes

I agree

You seem to have some bit hindsight 20/20 at play here.

No

if it has any utility to the capitalist class it would be 1. it can help to price out new competitors of the market and 2. it's an easy political ploy to get elected

We experienced dips and depressions, but the economy never was crushed in the way anti-industrialists predicted

You can do it

In my country, this is one of the reasons why the labour unions push employers into collective contracts where there's always a minimum salary increase for all employees in any given business, which correponds nearly 1:1 with the inflation goals of the central bank.

@TheBadfish That's hardly the point though, the point is how fast the changes come before the markets correct themselves.

You underestimate the market's ability to react to changing circumstances

So even if you don't get a significant payraise as an employee, you can be somewhat assured that at least your current salary will not have it's purchasing power reduced overtime due to inflation of the currency.