Automating things that can be automated is simply a superior solution, no matter how you feel about it. It's our responsiblity to attempt to wield that power for the benefit of the masses and not to let the abusive corporations lead the way.

In any case, i'm not here to persuade you about it. I'm just saying, if you are a proponent of UBI or minimum wage, then you have to keep these factors in mind. How income baselines actually help the capitalist class reduce the purchasing power of the average consumer, while politicians think (or at least tries to make you think) that it will increase the purchasing power of the average consumer.

Yes, and that is literally the exact same argument used by anti-industrialists in the 1890s

And we’re they innately wrong?

i'm not sure that minimum wage generally serves to reduce the purchasing power of the average consumer

Yes

horses versus EVERYTHING ain't an argument.

Yes

I agree

You seem to have some bit hindsight 20/20 at play here.

No

if it has any utility to the capitalist class it would be 1. it can help to price out new competitors of the market and 2. it's an easy political ploy to get elected

We experienced dips and depressions, but the economy never was crushed in the way anti-industrialists predicted

You can do it

In my country, this is one of the reasons why the labour unions push employers into collective contracts where there's always a minimum salary increase for all employees in any given business, which correponds nearly 1:1 with the inflation goals of the central bank.

@TheBadfish That's hardly the point though, the point is how fast the changes come before the markets correct themselves.

You underestimate the market's ability to react to changing circumstances

So even if you don't get a significant payraise as an employee, you can be somewhat assured that at least your current salary will not have it's purchasing power reduced overtime due to inflation of the currency.

there's a differences between the move from agricultural work to industrial work tho

There will, of course, be turbulence but if you think automation is some ultimate doom to the american worker/wage you're ignorant of how the economy reacts to the world and its advances

industrial work is unskilled

@TheBadfish You won't be feeling that way if you just so happen to live on the streets.

won't a heavily automated economy greatly increase the ratio of skilled to unskilled labor?

It doesn't matter how you feel about something that happens, but you can always recognize why and how it happened

The unskilled/skilled labor argument is also dumb, you then flood people into school, ok, that's EXACTLY LIKE THE MINIMUM WAGE PROBLEM!

i mean, you can put people in school

Sure I'd be pissed if I got my job automated, but that doesn't change the fact that the economy is going to react and people will find work elsewhere

doesn't necessarily mean they have the capacity to actually learn the skills that are needed

and i mean with the demographic trends in america we're certainly trending toward a stupider society

also you have to consider the availability of skill/trade knowledge now compared to the intra-industrial period

But it still floods the labor market!

What do you think will happen to about 80% of the population in a society where all the goods and services are automated?

both due to immigration and dysgenic factors

Literacy rates alone have skyrocketed, but the availability of knowledge now is completely incomparable to the 1900s

What does it matter if we’re all guys on the factory line vs we’re all guys who kinda get how the factory line robot works. If it becomes a mainline skill because now all the unskilled are now supposedly skilled. Where is the value outside the company reducing costs?

Our tools have always been evolving and getting more efficient, and our economy always grows and adapts to those changes

@TheBadfish AKA inflation in the value of education

Everything has a value tied to it, including your abilities.

The value is in the baseline of intelligence of the population. Yes the value of education is inflated but is that a bad thing? Is it really a bad thing that people can get hyper-educated (at least when compared to 100 years ago) with relative ease?

So all your saying is it’s ok if the worker is able to do less and earn less because now he is somewhat smarter at doing it? Oh great.

It's not like there's a ceiling to what the human race's collective knowledge can encompass, there are still countless mysteries and problems to be solved