that's nice, because that's not what I said. My entire point is quit lionizing one side simply on the merit that the other side is shit.

I didn't do that?

not you specifically

basically having this discussion with several people who have come and gone in the past thrity minutes

aight

pardon me

Yeah some people need to understand indeed that just because black is black doesn't make the rest white

or the enemy of your enemy is still worth keeping an eye on

agreed

My big problem with the democrats is that, largely, they have abandoned the working class. All the talk about a 15 dollar an hour minimum wage, free college, and medicare for all, these are straight up attacks on the working class.

Wage hikes will bring up prices, corporations dont profit nearly as much as people think and have a larger stake in operations than the yeoman. Free college is just fully taxpayer subsidized college, because the feds getting involved in higher education has gone so well over the past few decades. Medicare for all and making private insurance illegal would bankrupt us. The unions fought hard for the benefits I enjoy (which are far better than medicare) and I am not willing to give those up for subpar coverage.

"Medicare for all and making private insurance illegal would bankrupt us"

Doesn't in basically the rest of the West.

"The unions fought hard for the benefits I enjoy"

Not many unions left today are there?

"corporations dont profit nearly as much as people think"

I'm sure Google can part with a few million.

"Free college is just fully taxpayer subsidized college"

So?

Works in basically the rest of the West.

no one's talking about making private insurance "illegal", knock it off

...

The rest of the west is having their defense subsidized by the US. If they had to pay for militaries they wouldn't be able to afford socialist largess.

Have you not watched any of the democratic debates?

have you not read any proposed policy?

as in shit that's actually been put forth for vote?

and while I'll cede you the point on wage hikes, fucking spare me the idea that a central option for health insurance is anything but a good thing. the opposite is literally forcing americans to put their financial stability and/or physical fucking safety in the hands of profit motive. and so you have the individual mandate

So what candidates for presidents say on national television doesnt actually mean anything? All that matters is what is done on the floor of the senate and HoR?

Single payer enables people to live unhealthy at the cost of others, and they would be forced to live more healthy otherwise, change my mind

Furthermore considering the CDC released a report stating that 100 million americans are living with diabetes or prediabetes. That would drop another 1.5 trillion dollars onto the taxpayers heads if we shifted to medicare for all, thats on top of the 3.5 trillion we already spend on healthcare anually.

We also have a population that is larger than every single European country by several orders of magnitude.

Maybe medicare for all would work for a country with a population of less than 20 million, but 330 million I think not.

Single payer must come with a nationwide awareness campaign of all the major ways that people ruin their own health, e.g. bad diet and lack of exercise, change my mind

Must be propagated around the clock, change my mind

Oh and if you have diabetes or you buy a pepsi, you'll have to watch a bunch of extra infomercials on that

Then I'll be fine with single payer

Also nationwide shaming of fat people

If you're ok with that I'm ok with single payer

a reinvigoration of the American dogma of self-betterment would be nice

Sure would be either way, but if it's single payer then it must be mandatory

If not then at least we can spare people the propaganda

So have your cake, but don't eat it, too