the two terms are not mutually exclusive

I fail to see wherr we disagree here tbh

We both agree trump isnt the worst or best

I give him a B+ which is a lot better than I would have expected in '16 (he said some really silly things). As to working class support for the dems? I'll give you a hint it's in the name *working* class. Taxes and handouts =/= jobs.

Always fucks me up when people claim Bernie has "working class appeal". Have you seen his supporters? And no working at Starbucks because you got a degree in being useless is not working class.

So many brainlets coming out with the clip "we're not a democracy, we're a republic."

Can't for the life of me remember anyone that acknowledges we're a democracy try to deny we're also a republic.

not gonna say it never happened, I've just never seen it

@Jym he gets rounds of applause from folks in hard-red states where he's speaking at town halls and what not

crowds that don't look like baristas

I live in a red state. We have useless hipsters here too.

And if we're going by crowd response have you *seen* a Trump rally?

>useless hipsters
again, doesn't fit the description of those crowds

not an unnatural hair color in sight

and not rallies,town halls and Q&A's, where people ask questions

Bernie is anti-middle class, which by definition is being against the working class, because it means they can only stay poor under his policies

Since pro-middle class is essential to being pro-working class, it's clear which Dems are the good ones and which are the rotten ones

And the interesting part is

If you want to be pro-middle class, you also need to be pro-/neutral-upper class

Because to escape the lower class you need to be able to shoot for the upper class

If you can't do that, it's unlikely you'll even enter middle class

because the middle class has done *just fucking fine* under republicans

No u isnt an argument

that's nice, because that's not what I said. My entire point is quit lionizing one side simply on the merit that the other side is shit.

I didn't do that?

not you specifically

basically having this discussion with several people who have come and gone in the past thrity minutes

aight

pardon me

Yeah some people need to understand indeed that just because black is black doesn't make the rest white

or the enemy of your enemy is still worth keeping an eye on

agreed

My big problem with the democrats is that, largely, they have abandoned the working class. All the talk about a 15 dollar an hour minimum wage, free college, and medicare for all, these are straight up attacks on the working class.

Wage hikes will bring up prices, corporations dont profit nearly as much as people think and have a larger stake in operations than the yeoman. Free college is just fully taxpayer subsidized college, because the feds getting involved in higher education has gone so well over the past few decades. Medicare for all and making private insurance illegal would bankrupt us. The unions fought hard for the benefits I enjoy (which are far better than medicare) and I am not willing to give those up for subpar coverage.

"Medicare for all and making private insurance illegal would bankrupt us"

Doesn't in basically the rest of the West.

"The unions fought hard for the benefits I enjoy"

Not many unions left today are there?

"corporations dont profit nearly as much as people think"

I'm sure Google can part with a few million.

"Free college is just fully taxpayer subsidized college"

So?

Works in basically the rest of the West.

no one's talking about making private insurance "illegal", knock it off