@not_matt
I'm probably going to make a thread about this but basically I've noticed that my own community (very small minority) focuses a lot on "educating people about our culture" which in effect has been a bunch of bitching to white people about the discrimination we face.

In my view there is a difference between this (idpol) and still taking active measures against discrimination. @not_matt

@not_matt DUDE EXACTLY. THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE MISSES ON AFFIRMATIVE ACTION

thats an example of porky pointing racial anger in a direction where it serves as economic oppression

WE NEED AFF ACTION vs AFF ACTION IS REVERSE RACIST instead of hey lets educate everyone equally instead of based on where they grow up

@Santa Claauz
Well, this _is_ where my ethics diverge altogether, since I advocate exclusive claims.

when ur school is worse based on growing up in a poor area, you get cyclical poverty 🆒

@Santa Claauz "Or is any focus on a group besides the working class just a form of idpol" This. At best it focuses on a subset of class opression, which might be useful, but at risk of focussing on the effects not the cause, which can also be counterproductive.

@not_matt
Ah, I just had a discussion with my commie friend a while back on the Poverty Cycle.

@not_matt but basically the point I'm trying to make us that I believe there is a difference between what my community does (bitching about discrimination to white people and blabbing on about how tough we have it) and what I believe we should do (taking active measures to build our OWN community in order to actually fight discrimination.

@Deleted User

What's your take on this? Isn't there a difference? Or are both idpol

well i agree

Ah, but racism can be philosophical. Interpersonal racism definitely seems to correspond with poverty and porky propaganda, but there's also simply having a racist belief system.

bitching about discrimination is defeatist in a way

highlighting oppression, if the oppression in question concerns it in all forms, can't be a bad thing.... but community building is better

actively fighting >>>> bitching as well no matter what

^^^ I feel like that's all we do. I know it's important to highlight oppression especially when so many of us have been victims of hate crimes. But I just don't feel like it's productive to just complain about it.

@not_matt however there is an argument that even that community building and active fighting against discrimination is a form of idpol and we should forget about it and focus on class. What do you think?

i disagree with "anything other than class is idpol"

we fight against oppression. that's the whole thing imo

idpol is bad as a distraction. its bad if its obfuscating class. but we also have to recognize that blacks were the ones who were the economic class of slaves. they are currently the ones disproportionately thrown into private prisons to do fucking slave labor

^^^ really good way of putting it

thx comrade

However a lot of people here do say that anything other than class is idpol and I'm curious about what they think

Those people are shits.

And dumb.

Lol

(crowd cheers loudly)

facts

those people ignore oppression. people who only idpol or engage in essentialist bullshit ignore oppression. fuck em

@Santa Claauz If you wanted to take idpol to the extreme, every individual is a separate identity. The oppression they experience is specific to them. But this oppression is measurable, scientifically, objectively, not subjectively. The focus of idpol on the subjective experience is where it fails. To temptation to classify individuals together is a subjective trick. In reality everything is material, specifically, according to the proximity to the means of production, which is why only this analysis matters. Idpol is at best spinning tires while it does not address this.

So what would you say to the point that @not_matt brought up about blacks being the main victims of for profit prisons and such

Focussing on 'blackness' is only useful in statistical analysis. Action based on this subset is arbitrarily.

can you rephrase that, im not quite sure i get you

I think this is probably true. But I think I'd agree with Zielwhatsit if he's saying black people should be included and assisted along class lines rather than pitied along race ones.

if you are saying that, zielgerat, i'd agree. we have more in common than we don't regardless

I agree as well. But I think it's important to at least recognize that it's no coincidence that the main victims of private prisons are Black

Yes.

Realizing that reality allows us to examine and learn from the socioeconomic conditions that led to such a thing.

As an arbitrary group, yes. But why is Blackness so special? Why not birth date etc.?

Because they've been singled out and alienated as a group to the benefit of porkies.

Ignoring that reality leaves us in the same position as the Rightwingers (with our fingers in our ears)

Speaking of birthdate, though - ageism is a legit issue that's underaddressed in my opinion. But it's getting deeper down the rabbithole, too.