Message from @Blebleh
Discord ID: 314885841669586954
The end goal is not communism? Socialism is not a transition state to utopia?
yes the end goal is communism
but first you need world socialism
what did she mean by this
So you wish to consolidate the world under one state. What of those who do not wish for this?
no, the union is voluntary and only possible after world socialism
And do you see a corrupt neo-bourgeois run union of unwilling and brutally subverted states as 'world socialism'?
if they're bourgeois they can't be socialist
the bourgeoisie are the ones owning the means of production
they can be petit, big...
on the other side the proletariat, those who don't own them
And if the workers control the means of production are they not the bourgeois in place of the old?
Not to say the workers as the bourgeois is what I am criticizing
Quite the opposite really
no, because they can't exploit other workers with the means
since they're collectively owned not privately owned
Promising sovereignty through a representative union to the court is not my idea of a prole dictatorship
Bourgeois means to control the means of production
Have you not read Marx?
it is, dictatorship of the proletariat means the proletariat having power over the bourgoisie, at the contrary that the dictatorship of the capital
The collective becoming the bourgeois and eliminating their oppression is the very essence of communism
no
that would be distributism
the economy isn't privately owned
the means
however
the means of productions are collective, but personal property is for each worker
who has worked for it
And the worker is not the collective?
"to each according to his contribution" is socialism
the worker is part of the proletariat in capitalism
No the collective in the ideal communist society
yes
And there is no bourgeois?
in communism it's "to each according to his needs"
there isn't bourgeois in socialism or communism
Each according to his contribution sounds like a trade or merit system more than socialism
If there is no bourgeois then who controls production?
the state/the workers
If the workers are the proles then they do not control production