Message from @Mros
Discord ID: 322586108649144322
@Deleted User Cause is just an abstraction
join if you want 😮 https://discord.gg/b6w6vUp
@Blebleh Yes.
A version of it. The best one in my opinion. The Kalam argument isn't as good in my opinion.
Sorry to link this http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_first_cause
@Firefly Motion is just an abstraction, then.
Aquinas' words aren't "first cause" it's first mover.
^
That's a very important distinction.
Instead of reading a simplification of his argument read his actual words.
Which I posted above
@Deleted User Why? Motion is both abstraction and not. Case is also abstraction and not. In the first mover example case only an abstraction. You never seen the mover. It is abstract. You can perceive motion.
We can register motion
You can measure motion and make practical equations. Motion is a kind of cause and effect.
Those same equations work for cosmology.
@Deleted User case and effect is just abstraction in your head. Reality is not broken in case and result
Reality is just a motion
I think materialism is correct about that, reality is just matter and motion.
If reality is just matter and motion then how could something exist beyond that?
There is no real difference between case and effect in reality
Everything is case and everything is effect
If you break it into abstractions
That's the point. One effect is anothers cause is anothers effect etc.
It is just what it is
@Deleted User No, there is no effect. Effect is just in imagination.
What makes you think that, Firefly?
How do you know what motion is if you do not measure it?
it does not exist without an abstraction. If nobody to think about case it does not exist in abstraction.
I remind that Earth makes rotatory movements
and we don't ask if it's god anymore, right?
So reality is not broken into case and effect.
Reality is uniform
Free of abstraction
Blebleh I think you're assuming that if someone believes in a God they believe that everything is directly caused by him.
Abstraction is made by the brain only
How do you know that reality is uniform if you do not measure it? Is this another abstraction?
I don't reject that there could be a casuality for what we know; neither do I reject an infinite. The calification of instruments seems to me spooky
How is it wrong though?
@Deleted User You do not make abstractions in the place where they don't belong.
And it becomes uniform.