This is the first mover argument.

Why the universe can't move by itself and the first mover can?

ah this is the cosmological argument right?

Motion requires a cause.

@Deleted User Cause is just an abstraction

join if you want 😮 https://discord.gg/b6w6vUp

@Blebleh Yes.

A version of it. The best one in my opinion. The Kalam argument isn't as good in my opinion.

Sorry to link this http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_first_cause

@Firefly Motion is just an abstraction, then.

Aquinas' words aren't "first cause" it's first mover.

^

That's a very important distinction.

Instead of reading a simplification of his argument read his actual words.

Which I posted above

@Deleted User Why? Motion is both abstraction and not. Case is also abstraction and not. In the first mover example case only an abstraction. You never seen the mover. It is abstract. You can perceive motion.

We can register motion

You can measure motion and make practical equations. Motion is a kind of cause and effect.

Those same equations work for cosmology.

@Deleted User case and effect is just abstraction in your head. Reality is not broken in case and result

Reality is just a motion

I think materialism is correct about that, reality is just matter and motion.

If reality is just matter and motion then how could something exist beyond that?

There is no real difference between case and effect in reality

I apologize, I don't understand materialism too well myself.

Everything is case and everything is effect

If you break it into abstractions

That's the point. One effect is anothers cause is anothers effect etc.

It is just what it is

@Deleted User No, there is no effect. Effect is just in imagination.

What makes you think that, Firefly?

How do you know what motion is if you do not measure it?

it does not exist without an abstraction. If nobody to think about case it does not exist in abstraction.

I remind that Earth makes rotatory movements

and we don't ask if it's god anymore, right?

So reality is not broken into case and effect.

Reality is uniform

Free of abstraction

Blebleh I think you're assuming that if someone believes in a God they believe that everything is directly caused by him.

Abstraction is made by the brain only

How do you know that reality is uniform if you do not measure it? Is this another abstraction?