there doesn't have to be a baddy if people work for htemselves

You can if you're successful enough

you turn bourgeosie the moment you hire someone

more or less

Most people who do well for themselves end up employing other people

Why is that bad?

I'm not saying it's bad

i'm saying it is against the material interests of te employee

Well the dutch fellow said he'd revolt against them

you can revolt without introducing morals

Haven't seen it happen in history, a revolution completely devoid of any morality

that is correct

but you don't have to introduce morals in order to want to revolt

an actual revolution will be a movement of people

I think it's always there, you don't have to inject it

people have morals

well, if we're talking pure economics, which we started by doing, there are no morals

capitalism will move to socialism like feudalism moved to capitalism

economic theories don't introduce morals

right, but people seem more focused on the oppression vs oppressor thing than an actual economic model

To say that's not a big part of it isn't fair imo

that is true and it's a result of people not being without morals as you yourself said

ofc revolutions use moral arguments

but they also use economic

I generally like to seperate them

You might be able to, but I know how revolutions go

Sounds fun until people get killed for simply having employees

well feudal lords got killed simply by having serfs

and we celebrate that today

rightfully imo

serfs only had to pay 25% taxes, funny fact, compare it to now

the class relation between serf and feudal lord is comparable to that of employee/employer

and slave/slavemaster

The angle I come from is more libertarian, changing what it is now with a communist dictatorship(which it almost always is) is simply a slight of hand

I understand the want to distance from USSR-like societies

I don't think many people want that back

maybe some russian nationalists

but it's not like the dictatorship was something unforseen that happened without anyone seeing it coming

russia under the tsar consisted of mainly illiterate peasants so they didn't even attempt democracy

at least not democracy as we know it

Did the original revolutionaries have democracy in mind at all?