I am not against punishment, but the reason there is murder is not by some moral choice within the individual to perform it. Murderers are made by their social conditions, not by some mystical force of an all powerful free will. That is the point of difference.

Capitalism, also being a material reality, must also play a role is shaping murderers. Can you deny this?

tbh that line of reasoning would put blame on pretty much everything for shaping a murderer and could be applies to everything from the grass being green to not brushing your teeth

a communist blaming capitalism for murders ayylmao

Why would capitalism trump other things when everything would contribute?

At least capitalism doesn't scapegoat random people (bourgies)

shitposting on the internet is a part of this material reality, has this post contributed to a murder?

Do you hate science? Every theory put forward to explain the world is based on material things not subjective ideas. Capitalism is the current social, political economic system, of course it is a major factor on human behaviour.

So why bother replacing it with another social, political economic system, you'll just have other (worse) problems

Your argument was "x, being a material reality, must also play a role is shaping murderers. Can you deny this?" the grass is green is a material reality, does that make a man murder?

Since it all comes together to influence the murder

Because class tensions have to be resolved and cannot last forever because there is pressure building under capitalism and increasing disparity between classes. Confrontation is ahead.

class tensions are not as bad as you think they are

tbh thinking you know reality because of observations is a bit wrong because at some level observation itself shapes things

Yes, in some very small way, even grass contributes to social conditions, because it too is material and exists in the world of cause and effect.

If anything the racial and sex related tensions are more a thing than class tension

there is hardly a proletarian to fight for, they're certainly not communist/socialist

You are very anti-science if you think observation determines reality.

While we can not remove the grass from any equation to observe changes in behavior we can observe societies living in conditions opposite of what our societal/material condition is, or lacking an element. I don't know how this would plug into quantifying if a murder was committed because of the grass though.

You're anti quantum-physics then lad

Economic conditions are the most powerful contradiction, because it is material and primary to our lives. Everything else is distraction that tries to ignore it.

Since observation changing the outcome of shit was something found with quantum phenomena

The people are in good economic conditions in the west

The double slit experiment lad, basic shit

I must hate science though, right?

There's hardly a conflict here, and it's mostly from college age kids, not people who actually do the hard work

the only place communism/marxism is big is in college

Try me on Quantum Physics. I studied Friedman at university.

@Timo))) What does good economic condition mean though? If wealth equals happiness, then it seems preverse that wealth is in absense of happiness.

You are a retard if you interpret double slit as proving the observer as determining experimental result.

Good economic conditions mean that the supermarkets are full, you can get a job (more so if minimum wage was lower for the lower skilled) and you have the feeling of being able to make progress

The last point is the most important

Shapes, should've used changes as word for that. Didn't observation change the result, though?

@Timo))) Working one of those jobs at the supermarket to get by, I can confirm I feel no sense of ownership of or contribution to the buisiness as a whole.

I can leave and be replaced, I'm another cog.

I'm assuming you're working towards something, no?

To keep my head up.

Putting food on the table for children, saving to go on a vacation? saving for college?

working now but looking for another job in the mean time?

<:rbl:312038341736529923>

What other job? There's nothing else here.