Message from @DessertBeagle

Discord ID: 349424230007570452


2017-08-22 05:18:23 UTC  

So, you're basing it on an impression. That's not a very honest characterisation.

2017-08-22 05:18:31 UTC  

that wasn't really a war. That was state genocide

2017-08-22 05:18:43 UTC  

conducted by the occupiers

2017-08-22 05:18:49 UTC  

@DessertBeagle Yeah, as a means of conducting warfare

2017-08-22 05:19:21 UTC  

it was not warfare

2017-08-22 05:19:23 UTC  

it was genocide

2017-08-22 05:19:24 UTC  

My idea of anarchism is not restricted to borders and subpopulations.

2017-08-22 05:19:54 UTC  

@Deleted User Ok, explain what kind of society, that could still be described as anarchistic, would ever be able to withstand a modern state's genocidal whim?

2017-08-22 05:19:59 UTC  

But I would understand how a nationalist could be habituated to always think in these terms.

2017-08-22 05:20:19 UTC  

@DessertBeagle I don't see how the two are necesairly incompatibe

2017-08-22 05:20:31 UTC  

@Deleted User (I'm not a nationalist)

2017-08-22 05:20:52 UTC  

@Deleted User (unless by nationalist you mean a non-anarchist)

2017-08-22 05:21:04 UTC  

I don't know. I don't live in a fantasy world. I think in terms of here and now. Anarchism is an action nowadays against power structures. I'm not sure how a modern state would genocide people who are embedded all around the world.

2017-08-22 05:21:11 UTC  

warfare in the western world has always been subject to unstated rules, and the goal is not necessarily the extermination of the 'enemy' population. Once you get into that territory, it's genocide.

2017-08-22 05:22:27 UTC  

@Apollo'sJest Apologies, what is your politics?

2017-08-22 05:24:20 UTC  

@DessertBeagle Ok, but the entire point of Hitler's version of (eastern) warfare was germanisation or repalcement of the local population. That was the entire policy - that's why operation Barbarossa included entire divisions of mass executioners following the tank offenssive. To murder the locals. The German government did not want the population that it saw as a hasse, it wanted the land.

2017-08-22 05:25:28 UTC  

your point being?

2017-08-22 05:25:30 UTC  

@Deleted User I'm a bit of a wirdo... The short version is: republican (in the classical, non US sense) that most other contemporary repblicans would call a monarchist.

2017-08-22 05:25:45 UTC  

@DessertBeagle My point being genocide was part of the military strategy

2017-08-22 05:26:39 UTC  

they drove people off their land through terrorism and violence. They weren't trying to murder all Poles as you stated, simply to take their territory. That is known these days as 'ethnic cleansing'

2017-08-22 05:27:08 UTC  

which is seperate from genocide, as practiced against the Jews, where the goal is the mass execution of an entire group

2017-08-22 05:27:26 UTC  

although admittedly the lines can be blurry

2017-08-22 05:30:36 UTC  

@DessertBeagle I see the point for distinguishing between the exact concepts, but I also see the point of applying a wholistic method of analysis by which I mean: at the time international conflic used all of those methods you listed above to achieve the geopolitical goal it hgad in mind. Thus I argue that the concept of war, that is open and larg scale international conflict using all means necessary, was "enriched" at the time. Just as during WWI it got "enriched" by the application of large scale chemical weapons.

2017-08-22 05:31:09 UTC  

The difference is that chemical weapons were a tactical novelty while genocide and so forth was a strategic novelty

2017-08-22 05:34:40 UTC  

So to answer your charge. Anarchy is not a border or population. It exists everywhere. Maybe is concentrated pockets at times, but never for very long - this is not the goal. The primary concern is action against statism, property, rights etc. which are everywhere.

2017-08-22 05:35:37 UTC  

@Deleted User So you don't have long term political goals?

2017-08-22 05:36:06 UTC  

I think that's unrealistic. Like I said, I am mainly concerned with the present, not lofty ideals.

2017-08-22 05:36:37 UTC  

@Deleted User So what is the goal than? The realistic one.

2017-08-22 05:36:49 UTC  

@Deleted User Wait, you are anti rights?

2017-08-22 05:36:51 UTC  

Just actions.

2017-08-22 05:37:08 UTC  

@Deleted User Acting for actng's sake?

2017-08-22 05:37:09 UTC  

'Natural right' is a spook.

2017-08-22 05:37:27 UTC  

So what about personal freedoms?

2017-08-22 05:37:38 UTC  

Afterall, you do want to liberate the workers, as you claim.

2017-08-22 05:38:13 UTC  

but WW2 was not the beginning of genocide and ethnic cleansing, those have long historical precedent. While they saw use in that conflict, I reject the notion that WW2 saw those tactics somehow enshrined ('enriched') in the western way of war. Look at the many conflicts the US has engaged in since then where these were not part of the overall strategy.
Back to your earlier point of 'extermination based total war', well in the end the nation who used that strategy lost to a multinational coalition. So I would say that we haven't seen that used successfully in warfare in centuries. However, it has often been used in modern times successfully against a populace by their own government (Armenian genocide, russian pogroms, etc..)

2017-08-22 05:39:00 UTC  

Ethnic cleansing and genocide has existed since humanity first began to develop civilizations.

2017-08-22 05:40:04 UTC  

@Apollo'sJest Acting against social institutions which oppresses the reality of the individual. State, property etc. which are just abstractions and trickery.

2017-08-22 05:40:42 UTC  

@Deleted User I don't recognise the 'personal freedom' meme. In what context? There is only the individual. It is what it is.

2017-08-22 05:42:09 UTC  

@Deleted User If the workers and people in general do not have any rights, then what differentiates your commune from a tyranical state?

2017-08-22 05:42:45 UTC  

@Deleted User You're making way too many assumptions here. I've never advocated any of this.

2017-08-22 05:43:05 UTC  

Yet you just said that you do not recognise personal freedom, or natural rights.