Message from @Railing

Discord ID: 354123797730689024


2017-09-04 04:37:49 UTC  

organization and leadership doesn't necessitate authority

2017-09-04 04:38:01 UTC  

But what is a leader who does not give orders?

2017-09-04 04:38:11 UTC  

they can give orders too

2017-09-04 04:38:22 UTC  

but they wouldn't have any coercive authority

2017-09-04 04:38:23 UTC  

Would people have to democratically vote on every decision he makes?

2017-09-04 04:38:30 UTC  

no

2017-09-04 04:38:53 UTC  

in many settings people would accept that the leader has more experience and knowledge than them

2017-09-04 04:39:00 UTC  

leadersip is self justifying

2017-09-04 04:39:14 UTC  

if people question a leader than I assume there's something wrong with him

2017-09-04 04:39:24 UTC  

Coercion, while unpleasent, is necessary if there are needs for it.

2017-09-04 04:39:49 UTC  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308950154222895104/354123363339206657/DASH.gif

2017-09-04 04:39:59 UTC  

Of course, an anarchist society wouldn't tolerate crime either

2017-09-04 04:40:21 UTC  

in fact it'd likely use capital punishment because people don't like operating prisons

2017-09-04 04:40:22 UTC  

But you said earlier, that the leadership could not use coercion.

2017-09-04 04:40:32 UTC  

So which is it?

2017-09-04 04:40:43 UTC  

in day-to-day life, people can voluntarily follow a leader

2017-09-04 04:40:57 UTC  

a leader doesn't need a whip to influence people and if they do, they aren't a good leader

2017-09-04 04:41:07 UTC  

crime is a differet issue

2017-09-04 04:41:14 UTC  

people have a right to self-defense

2017-09-04 04:41:30 UTC  

But in an anarchist world where there is no morals or authority, crime can be just about anything.

2017-09-04 04:41:32 UTC  

defending oneself isn't imposing ones authority on another

2017-09-04 04:41:47 UTC  

It would be more up to how people define crime.

2017-09-04 04:41:50 UTC  

crime is the same things we see it as today

2017-09-04 04:41:59 UTC  

people are innately opposed to murder and rape and stealing

2017-09-04 04:42:33 UTC  

we don't need authoritarians to point out the obvious

2017-09-04 04:42:55 UTC  

moreover many crimes impose authoritarian conditions on individuals and go against anarchist principles

2017-09-04 04:43:39 UTC  

But, when society falls apart, and there is no governing force or morals, I would have to imagine that slavery, prostitution, cartels, and more would become common place, because there is no central authority that is against them, organizations could make laws that would make such things legal.

2017-09-04 04:43:54 UTC  

Government =/= society

2017-09-04 04:44:25 UTC  

I mean to be clear, anarchy =/= chaos

2017-09-04 04:44:31 UTC  

@Wilhelm Zaisser#5032 Society today depends on the governments of today, it is a need, not them being the same.

2017-09-04 04:44:44 UTC  

it would require a vast bureacracy and complex institutiosn to manage

2017-09-04 04:44:49 UTC  

there'd be order

2017-09-04 04:45:11 UTC  

and it would take a massive upheaval to diminish that order just like most societies today

2017-09-04 04:46:12 UTC  

Order is dependant on some form of authority to enforce it, otherwise people would not listen or obey to it.

2017-09-04 04:46:32 UTC  

Anarchism also removes most of the incentives people have to commit crime. Private property of course, should be abolished.

2017-09-04 04:46:38 UTC  

*Without God, morality wouldn't exist*

2017-09-04 04:46:40 UTC  

there's a natural order to thing

2017-09-04 04:46:51 UTC  

that can be imposed throughinstitutions

2017-09-04 04:46:56 UTC  

people can self organize

2017-09-04 04:47:02 UTC  

@Railing Yes, when you make everything legal, then crime rates will drop 100%.

2017-09-04 04:47:20 UTC  

we don't hierarchical structures in place to organize people