There is an irony here. You kept talking about 'freedom' as if it's some abstract thing.

and here you make another

if communism is what you say it is, then it would not be communism until you have reached that point of absolute communist force to be communist

and in that in it self communism your communism is oppresive and destructive

Again, you admit that you're dealing with perfections and absolutes - things which can never exist. But Communism does not give a shit about those.

>and in that in it self communism your communism is oppresive and destructive
Says the nazi pretending to be communist

That's why Marx talks about 'the real movement to abolish the present state of things' rather than 'a state of affairs to be established'.

well buttzo had to say some shit

We don't care about your frozen ideas. They're useless to us. They're either mundane truisms or impossible things which we can't even conceive of in concrete terms.

like which frozen ideas

you stay so vague in your dodges

Buttzo

'So vague', when I mentioned it over and over again.

"What makes it different from Fascism or even what you call 'fascism' is that Communists don't say 'freedom is impossible, why bother'. Instead, we say that the impossibility of your frozen idea of 'freedom' does not mean that concrete freedoms are impossible."

That's a new one

I commend you on your creativity

So much for being vague.

@Garbage > goes on not naming these "ideas"

Read the screenshots.

how is it frozen idea, when you want freedom of determination

It's because you imagine it as something that must be beyond material conditions.

maybe im anarchist

And then you say 'well, we submit to those material conditions'.

communism is that you know

you have a need of the ppl and you need to work to create matirals for the ppl

this is the whole submission

And not to change the material conditions themselves?

'Needs of the people' change, and so do the demands and goals of the people.

Yeah, needs like food and clothing

transportation infrastructure

basic things

that you like need

But we did not need them to survive before or pursue various goals before, now, did we?

To defend their lives, people did not have to rely on a military and maintain it, did they, when states were not in existence...?

And we will not always need things like trains in future.

What use is a train in space, for example?

Our world changes, but not as we consciously want it to. We live in a world of indirect economic and political relations where we aren't conscious of the commonalities between us and we conceive of ourselves as being forever locked into exclusive modes of life by some outside force which we either haven't managed to control yet or simply don't want to (this attitude is *defeatist*).