oh fuck off to the international again

bakunin made this prediction while criticizing marx, lenin followed marx, and LO, red bureacracy turn out to be evil

"evil"

okay liberal

liberals are puppets of the bourgeoisie and the state

@alines You should not use such a black and white perception of "good and evil".

It's a pure generalization.

Lenin was a great man

literally my favorite man ever

marx and all his followers deserve to have the world population piss on all their graves for eternity

how do you just completely disregard marx and call yourself even slightly left leaning

bakunin

@Lucas 4313 >Returns the soviet union to capitalism and nearly causes it's collapse due to shitty management, and starvation becomes much more worse than it was during the climax of WW1, as well as most of his policies failing and being retracted

Wew, when you look at it objectively, stalin was 100X better than lenin.

">" who returned the soviet union to capitalism

Gorby?

@Lucas 4313 Nope, lenin did before stalin reversed his policies, he allowed for private ownership to return.

you make it out as if marx just invented socialism.
no, his ideas only received the most attention from socialists.
that means nothing as to whether or not he epitiomized the left.
HE DID NOT

Had stalin not reworked the USSR from it's core, then it is quite likely that it would have collapsed, similarly to how it did in the 90's, but with much more bloodshed.

Marx is the father of the collectivist ideology, also known as 70% of the left. If you do not consider marx to know anything then you are a useless anarchist in my eyes

also Stalin was good I agree on that

Lenin's ideas were better though

ideally

@Lucas 4313 They were complete and utter failures.

lenin said that ideally the state would eventually dissolve

They may have looked pretty on paper, but in the real world, they failed.

@alines And did it?

nope

Of course.

because they kept the state, instead of destroying it

you cant just dissolve a state when the world is against you

@Lucas 4313 Last I checked, the USSR in it's early years got backed by the UK, france, and was allied with several communist chinese states.

I dont really know how to rationalize to someone that doesnt believe in collectivism at all but Marx believes that we require a world revolution, or in short a one state union that can then dissolve into communism

the USSR in its early years was not backed by the UK, or France, but with some Chinese

the UK and France sent volunteers to the whites, which were then sent back after their defeat

the western world depsised the idea that the rich were not in power

@Lucas 4313 No, the UK and france pulled support, and later actually supported the USSR, towards the end of the war.

marx and engels trying to justify the preservation of the state is exactly the reason for the atrocities committed by the ussr, the dprk, and venezuela.
it is for this exact reason that i will hate marx and engels forever

@alines To be fair, marx and engels did state that later on the state would dissolve by it's self.

you cannot just dissolve a state in this world

you will lose to outside forces