They stand for the same thing, as Sargon rightly understands now.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jul/04/nhs-collapse-without-them-growing-role-volunteers

🤣

I detest the Guardian, it is openly racist and sexist towards Native Europeans and Men. We need to stop throwing money at African countries with the 'Overseas-Budget' and start using it on our own country first

Forgien Aid bruh. gives me a good fee fee in my tummy

wait, the NHS isn't thriving? in the US we keep getting told single payer plans are the future 😛

the strike like last February or 2 ago was crazy, I'd never heard of doctors going on strike before that

The NHS is rather expensive!

Nice to have

but it's quite stretched cus they can't get enough staff in

I mean, if I can make as much with a 4 year comp-sci degree, why spend the 8 years plus specialization to be a doctor?

honestly I think private healthcare with price transparency makes the most sense

yes, but I must agree that there should be a system for the financially impared

in the US, you don't know what a bill is going to be until you've paid it

Yeah, turns out if you have taxpayer funded institutions they kinda break down when over 200,000 immigrants per year enter such a small country, 60%+ of whom take out of welfare rather than pay into it. If the fucking issue wasn't so wrapped up in tripe about bigotry anybody would be able to understand the basic maths of it. Add to that the fact that under labour NHS funding was boosted by private finance initiatives, probably to avoid increasing taxes, now the whole system is deeply in debt. Welfare and nationalised health insurance can be great things, but not when they're put under such stress and when the rules are so exploitable.

Healthcare systems are very tricky to structure. If you have an injury it could be more benneficial to society for it to be repaired to that you can continue with your job, then you be impared by the injury or their fiancial burdens it could take on your job

IT should be like perscriptions: you have to have specific requirements to get it for free

Certificates

then theres the issue of overpopulation and open borders (no limits) making the population multiply at unforseen rates that our infrastructure cannot support.

For a start I'd say you have to be a British citizen to get any welfare or NHS treatment. Alternatively you have to have been paying tax and contributing to the system for several years if you aren't a citizen. This would put off people who are just showing up to reap the benefits of a system they haven't contributed to. It's essentially theft.

I wholeheartedly agree

I've had talks with friends about this...if you aren't going to restrict immigration to net contributors, then you have to restrict the benefits that immigrants can receive

at the very least, if you're going ot a country as someone who needs welfare, you should be forced to learn the language and take some job training

with a reasonable timeperiod

if you aren't passable in english after 2 years, then you have to go

Yeah the logistics of throwing people out of the country are basically impossible, so the only good way I can think of is to eliminate incentives. Whatever is incentivised in any society increases. Like with the child welfare system prior to the two child rule. Created an incentive to be a single parent with lots of kids, so we got just that

I saw a stat that 25% of DREAMERS speak no english, and as many will be on food stamps in the next decade, 40 something % can't speak passable english

Thank Christ we have a water-border

I agree, but when I'm discussing this with people who are pro open borders, I throw out things I think we can agree with

yeah, you don't have the problems we do yet

Rebuild hadrian's wall tho

Haha yeah, being for open borders is just infantile. Someone believing that is not a serious person, but an absolute baby.

I'd be more open to the idea if we agreed they didn't qualify for any welfare at all, originally we got immigrants who had no expectations from the governemnt, and worked their asses off (my great grandparents were farmers from Italy for example)

my grandpa on my dad's side spoke NO french at home, so my dad speaks no french, because they wanted to assimilate

(french canadian)

but I feel like that isn't how it goes anymore

If borders were removed then there are no national boundaries, so in consequence the existence of nations in the first place vanishes. With no nations you can't have stable systems so every area becomes the same as any other. Where the fuck are so-called dreamers supposed to move to for a better life, then? So let's give everybody a better life by destroying the integrity and stability of the very systems that produce this better life. Whee! Morons.

I'm afraid this globalisation is irreversible.

With open borders you can't have representative governments either, since there is no stable community to represent. No point paying taxes either, for that reason. Globalisation isn't inevitable at all XP

But maybe, if brexit works out.

Maybe...