but what is the basis for these rights

you can't give me a straight answer

Again, rights are just concept we agreed that everyone deserves. Basically any form of freedom that doesn't hurt anyone else

dae workers seize the means of production

Rights are things we are born with and government is there to protect

so what makes the concept of us agreeing that the ability to own land is a right different from us agreeing to the right for employees to excercise workplace democracy

one is theft

circular logic

The company is privately owned. If the ones who owns it wants to run it as a democracy, I have no objections

yeah but what if we don't agree that firms should be privately owned

cry harder then

They will be privately owned, get over it

If it already belongs to someone, the state has no authority to take it away. That's why

why

The one who owns it either built it himself or bought it

we don't agree that owning firms is a right

Well it is

but you just said that rights are a concept we agreed everyone deserves

We agreed on it as a society. Just because one individual disagrees doesn't make the concept null. And there are really good reason for the existence of that right

yeah but i'm saying what if we didn't agree

is it no longer a right

True. If we all agree that right of ownership isn't a thing than it's not. But that also means you don't get to own the phone or computer you are corrently using

So would you really want that?

i dont care if i dont own my stuff as long as i can use it when i want and for what i want

yes probably

no you could have legal property rights without having to justify those laws on the basis of protecting this weird notion of natural rights

off to the gulags with you then

No you can't. You have to have some sort of standart, if you don't why can the government take google away but not your phone?

because google being privately owned has an effect on society that greatly outstrips that of me owning a phone

Oh I see. So government can take away whatever the fuck they want, but only if they think it will make society better

pretty much

anyone can take whatever they have the power to

but if you're talking about what ought to be done

Execty ^^

That's the fucking point

The government can take whtever they want

then we could say, perhaps we should change our laws regarding property rights to improve society

That why we limit them

and use the government as an apparatus of organized force to do so

or of course overthrow the government and create a new one

@Baraban that why governments that treat communists like animals are the best