Yeah, that's just dogmatic ideology, not collectivism VS individualism

I think we're basicly agreeing but just squabbling over terms.

I don't think we are.

Most people say "I'm an American and a catholic" or whatever. They see these group affiliations as an inherent part of their identity

You're attempting to elevate and equate an ideology with a human behavior pattern

and that just seems kinda bizzare to me. to define yourself by attributes and affiliations instead just your individual name.

Then you're probably autistic

I know I'm in the minorty on this issue and tbh it's why I don't have a lot of hope for humanity.

Let me ask you this: let's say you live in a small town where everyone knows each other.

Do you feel a sense of dutiful obligation to help your community in some way and give back?

only to repay debts

Then you're in the minority

This is not normal or healthy human behavior in groups

there's also a bit of context to add. I don't chose the people who live physicly around me. ergo I don't have any control over those affiliation. and if I can't control a group assoaciation than I don't have any concern for that group and I don't identify with such a group. groups I chose to affiliate with though are diffrent.

Yeah, my point still stands

Let's look at this from a human evolutionary psychology persepctive:

Which is more advantageous? The guy who does the bare minimum to not get the boot from his tribe, or the guy who goes above and beyond for the betterment of his tribe, even though he didn't get to choose who is in?

you can really only give back if you have amassed wealth. unless you just mean lend a hand with something.

I left the tribe years ago

fuck the tribe

@josephchansen Both. Everyone can give back

what did that tribe ever do for me

@Harazu Keshtah Yep, then you are a stain in the human fabric. Sorry lol

That's why they call it a fabric, and not a pile of thread

answer the tribe always demands the obliteration of my will and they want money with no services rendered.

Or people say they live in a 'tight knit community'

This is the way humans are meant to live: as interwoven groups working for the betterment of their neighbors

I don't agree

Okay, then go build your cabin in the woods with no children and fight off bears

sounds good to me

you talk mad shit for someone in cumshot range

I'm not an altruist I'm a capitalist

Society is not made up of individuals

pay up or render services for my money or screw off

Capitalists get farther by being altruistic

altruism is not paying people

for nothing

my very existence torpedos any hopes for a lovey dovey hive minded society because I will always say no.

Why should I work with you? You're that greedy dick that doesn't help the community?

That other guy though, the grocer? He gives his day old bread to the poor. That guy's cool

Sometimes people can't provide any benefit to society so altruism is necessary to keep them alive (think orphans)

and then I leave that community.

like tommorow

Good riddance

Most communities would just bar you