justice has to speak up for the vicitim

example, we had a serial murderer here before

chopped up his victims

into tiny pieces

not a single murder mind you

maybe with a single murder, a lawyer could argue to get your charge dropped down to manslaughter

i don't believe in killing people for murder

in an eye for eye society a lot of people would be blind

the government is supposed to protect its citizens even if they are criminal and they have no right to kill them

war is state sanctioned murder

governments have every legal right to declare it

yea but it's murder of other nations' citizens

not that it's a good thing

still murder morally

the question is whether justice should be upheld

or morality

well i think morality is deeply subjective, that's why we have written laws

yes, but morality and justice goes hand in hand

laws and morality

laws are based on morality, but they are not the same thing

I'm saying they're linked and they complement one another

yes but the laws are what should be enforced

here's another problem

what happens if you commit a crime in another country

a judge can't imprison a person because they think what they did is wrong, they can only imprison people that violated the law

which has the death penalty

and you committed a crime which calls for it

by that country's laws

well that does happen

of course it does

singapore has hanged as many foreign nationals

as it does locals

usually there are diplomatic deals involved with that

yes and no

again, principles

it ultimately comes down to politics

for example if a us national gets sentenced for the death penalty in a country in which the us has power over, they can get them back

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flor_Contemplacion <- here's one of the more famous examples

yeah

we got into hot soup over the canning of that american guy

that must have been a shitty situation