It really is

No problem, just wanna be Zeducated and help the community 🙂

Hey guys, im arguing some flaming leftists. I need some sources on why we are better off under Trump than Obamacare for healthcare.

Also, they are arguing that its worse as a trans person under Trump

@Jwolf you free to help me?

just had a half an hour argument with them. like 6 of them. and theyve all stopped talking. the only thing they were clinging onto was the healthcare topic. jesus christ so fucking uncivil sometimes. they tried to default to arguments of personal things to attack me that didnt work lol. tried to attack my belief in God as an atheist... or my homophobia for not wanting gay parents to be able to adopt children when I actually support that.

They called Mike Pence "horny for fracking" too LOL. they told me Trump and Pence want to frack national/federal reserves and parks. that seems like some bullshit to me though

https://tenor.com/view/stitch-frustration-%E5%8F%B2%E8%BF%AA%E5%A5%87-gif-4802586

Sorry you had to deal with the whales.

wasnt so bad. but one time on that server there was one decent person who had a good conversation, today it was a mob of people going back nad forth between actually arguing, and just trying to insult or throw shit. someone told me they support freedom of speech, driving a v8, owning guns, etc but they wont support Trump at all because he hates trans people and healthcare?

Healthcare is better and more affordable under Trump than the failure that was Obamacare.

honestly should refrain from getting into arguments like this when im outnumbered and its most likely hopeless.. but I cant fucking stand seeing people say stupid fucking shit and make up lies in their echo chamber circle jerk. then the most belligerent and nasty of those people just slink away and disappear when someone who actually wants to debate and argue shows up.

so if anyone is willing to send me some extra articles to have on hand next time, I would be grateful. Specifically about how healthcare is better now than under ObamaCare, how its better for Trans people, and also about how Trump doesnt want to destroy the country, the world, and all of our parks with fracking. thank you!

Healthcare now is better because the revoking of the mandate, requiring everybody to have insurance, which skyrocketed prices for everybody. Also, I believe it was Gorsuch who wrote the opinion protecting Trans people in terms of insurance.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/15/us/politics/gorsuch-supreme-court-gay-transgender-rights.html

Although this court case does not specifically mention rights regarding health care, it will carry the same precedent if challenged.

thank you Froski!

https://www.kff.org/health-costs/issue-brief/how-repeal-of-the-individual-mandate-and-expansion-of-loosely-regulated-plans-are-affecting-2019-premiums/

Here is an article on the Individual Mandate repeal and how it affected costs.

Silver policies went up, however, bronze policies went down, presumably.

Also, just the key aspect of the Individual Mandate was unconstitutional.

Awesome, can you explain in simple terms why it was unconstitutional and what it made it so?

Also, what is the difference between silver and bronze policies? im reading both articles right now

Well, the Individual Mandate required everybody to have health insurance, or pay a fine at the end of the year for each month you did not have health insurance. Here is an excerpt from an article describing why it is unconstitutional. "The 5th Circuit decided that the individual mandate as amended by the TCJA is unconstitutional. The court agreed with the state and individual plaintiffs and the federal government’s assertion that the requirement to produce some revenue is “essential” to the Supreme Court’s earlier finding in NFIB that the individual mandate could be saved as a valid exercise of Congress’s power to tax. Without that feature, the mandate is a command to purchase health insurance, which as the Supreme Court held in NFIB, is an unconstitutional exercise of Congress’ power to regulate interstate commerce." (https://www.kff.org/health-reform/issue-brief/explaining-california-v-texas-a-guide-to-the-case-challenging-the-aca/)

The key reason it had been found constitutional in previous cases was due to the power to tax, however, the Supreme Court is *California v. Texas* determined that although they have a power to create some revenue, they do not have the power to force people to buy health insurance, through the interstate commerce act.

Forcing people to buy health care should be a crime

Buy health care or be fined

The amount of coverage. There are generally three groupings: bronze, silver, and gold. Gold offers the most coverage and is the most expensive. Bronze is the cheapest, but generally the best option for healthy young people that are using insurance as protection in the worst scenario. https://www.bcbsm.com/index/health-insurance-help/faqs/topics/buying-insurance/metal-tiers.html

Here is Blue Cross Blue Shields Explanation.

Thank you Froski. a lot of reading to do here and a lot to absorb

Whoops.

Okay, awesome, I understand whats going on here a bit better now.

Trump also allowed Non-ACA insurances which is what I probably do when I age out of my parents insurance but still in college so won't have my own employer insurance. It's basically a even more bare bone insurance that are cheap (like sub $100) but have high deductibles and don't cover prescriptions but is there for you if you have an emergency.

thank you! good addition

I appreciate everyone's helps and contributions. learned a lot in a very short amount of time. maybe this will help educate more people as well. a trans person that was arguing agreed with gun rights, being able to drive a v8, freedom of speech etc... but their main grievance was that "Trump was taking away healthcare and protections within it for trans people" so who knows, maybe this could be the thing that changes that person's opinion.

So, on that point, I'd ask them what they consider trans to be? Do they consider it to be a mental illness? Because I think the first criticism stemmed from restricting trans people from the military because, assuming they believe it is a mental illness, we cannot have people with mental illnesses in the military.

the military ban was not brought up, but im not sure what they think it is. some of them are pretty hard flaming leftists, so I would lean towards them not believing its a mental illness, its just how some people are.

I agree with that assertion about the military though. Trans has a 40% (somewhat debatable) suicide rate, and we cant have that in a warzone.

Also something funny I just thought of, is I once had someone argue with me about how that was disgusting and evil and how trans people should be allowed to serve their country if they want too, its disgusting that Trump wants to prevent those people from serving... but that comes from a leftist who hates Trump, hates America, thinks Trump is a fascist, and thinks America is bad an imperialistic... interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-fcWg8n6-g&feature=share

https://thefederalist.com/2019/10/11/donald-trump-has-done-far-more-for-gay-people-than-the-stonewall-democrats/

Thank you @Jwolf for these articles

They just linked me two articles that Blaire White debunked in her video, and showed that they actually issued retractions for later.

Blaire is great.