If a moral codex of laws instituted by the government were to be enforced harshly, are the people who are following these laws virtuous by following them? Even if it is out of fear that motivates them, not righteousness? Nothing in the Bible ever demands that you follow God. it simply tells you what would happen if you defy him. You can choose to perfectly well not believe that he exists. Then, you have nothing to lose if you engage in behavior that is otherwise forbidden. only through the freedom of will can we ever know are true resolve of being virtuous people that try to live a christ-like life.

If I helped a homeless man, not expecting to get any pat on the back for doing so, would I be more virtuous than if I did it simply so I could stop my mother from demanding that I do so? Do I do it out of selfishness, or selflessnes?

So In summary, Being attracted to men not a sin, but sexual actives with him is.

At least in my own opinion.

Sexual activities would also expand to lusting after him. As it requires intent.

I sure it might, but the reason why you do it don't effect the effect, if someone sees or doesn't, the homeless man is still get going to help. In this case the reason don't change the effect

I think, we should look more about the effects of something, than if its Morally "good" because maybe at the end of the day, their is no god. I don't think you should do something with the goal just to please god, you should the motive to help your fellow man, because that what Jesus did. Jesus didn't die for our sins because the father said so, he did it because he loves us

@White Feather The reason I used that analogy, is that if I only ever did objectively good acts for selfish means, what happens when I can levy help towards somebody but would get absolutely nothing out of it? I've tainted my soul with selfish desire.

If I wanted to force others to do good acts against their will, I would be committing a great horror on them. If they said no to it, but I demanded, and imposed otherwise, I have inadvertently bestowed upon myself the power of some moral busybody, caught up in the mad scramble of doing good acts to satiat some base hunger for God to consider me good. I may be closer to Heaven in my own eyes, yet be much closer to crafting a hell on Earth.

I need to go do some yard work, be back in a bit.

Your motive matters

I think all of gods teaching should be looked under the context that god is dead, or doesn't exist. Because humanity is the only thing that we 100% is real. I don't think we should follow the rules of god just because he said so, I think we should follow the laws that make our world better. at the end of day the only thing is for sure is real is man, if something that I will do will be considered sinful by god, but it will help my fellow man, I will do it. Morals do not exist, they are stories we tell our selfs, A sin doesn't exist on earth, but a punch does, the pain of losing a loved one does exist. I think that the bible has some good ideas but some bad ones too,

No what i'm saying is that the motive does not effect what happens, a punch is a punch, not matter what are your motives

Yes if God is not really then religion doesn't matter. But if God is real then you are in great danger. I personally believe God is real therefore I follow God instructions.

Your motive is the cause while effect is the punch

So motive matters

@DeButcher But god taught us in the story of Isaac that we should do a bad thing just because god told us to.

Could u elaborate ? @White Feather

okay

God told Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac, but then said NO before he did it

Sorry, I'm a bit fuzzy with the story,

did i get the message right

I don't think you got the purpose of the message right

I think the purpose was to test if Abraham would truly follow God's will no matter what. God never intended for Abraham to sacrifice his son, as God prevented Abraham from doing that in the Bible. It would really be more of a test of loyalty and faith in God

Was god mad that he did not try to kill his son

No, Abraham was about to do it

he was preparing to sacrifice his son

No God stopped him from killing his son

It was a test

So, if I reading this okay, God wants all of us to do everything he tells us to, even if we know it will harm each other

well yes, but actually no

In the Issac story it didn't hurt anyone

Ur correct in this first part of your sentence

Fine you guys win with the point with Isaac

Don't want this to be a debate, things can get heated really quick. Feel free to ask questions and learn that what this channel is about

He wants us to do everything he tell us to. And depending on circumstances he wouldn't tell us to hurt another

like let's be honest God is a vengeful God

Fine, look my opinion is that God shouldn't be the decider of morality, The effects of the action should, thats my choice.

I won't sugarcoat it

What your perspective on God? Do you believe or dont

Like when the Israelites started worshipping idols instead of God. God instructed the Levites to kill all those who worshipped said idol.