Message from @Creampie
Discord ID: 786968745212903475
No. You don’t while in early stages of development.
See point is, before a heartbeat, the fetus is a collection of cells. And you can argue that it has the potential to grow, but that potential can't be achieved without the mother. Put the fetus out of the womb it's dead
So on its own
It's dead
Just like a dead man
Is this another abortion debate?
No shit. But essentially, it won’t get outside of the womb on its own.
Yes.
Unless a miscarriage
But that’s a different discussion
What's even the point of saying this? I am arguing that on its own the fetus is as good as dead before a heartbeat
No it's not
Without the mother. Without chemo, many people are good as dead. Should we just kill ‘em now, because they rely on something else to live?
Once the zygote has implanted itself on the uterine wall it is a separate living being
Right. Has an individual genetic code.
There is a difference b/w helped stay alive and becoming alive
By which definition?
It has become alive at fertilization
Then after wards relies on the mother
By science
From there it grows into a separate human with its own individual characteristics
Not really, with your logic. It’s alive at the moment of fertilization, as @Creampie said.
Lol
Scientists haven't come to a conclusion yet
Sure they have
Yeah they have.
It's nothing to find out it's a known fact
It's already been determined
See point is, before a heartbeat, the fetus is a collection of cells. And you can argue that it has the potential to grow, but that potential can't be achieved without the mother. Put the fetus out of the womb it's dead
This is my logic
They have not
It is a collection of separate living cells
That's not how you define alive
Okay. Like I’ve said, should people who rely on machinery for life be considered dead, because without it they won’t survive?
Yes the mother is needed but that's because that's how reproduction works
How do you define alive?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3713799/%23:~:text%3DAccording%2520to%2520them%252C%2520the%2520fetus,or%2520more%2520as%2520human%2520being.&ved=2ahUKEwjNlP7Nl8btAhUszTgGHbEqCmYQFjABegQIAhAE&usg=AOvVaw1xGrGHBTr__jznZe8OJ0fn
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.bbc.com/ethics/abortion/child/alive_1.shtml&ved=2ahUKEwjNlP7Nl8btAhUszTgGHbEqCmYQFjAIegQIFRAB&usg=AOvVaw0_4W-a1fQW4fFAFEILbEY7
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.bbc.com/ethics/abortion/child/alive_1.shtml&ved=2ahUKEwjNlP7Nl8btAhUszTgGHbEqCmYQFjAIegQIFRAB&usg=AOvVaw0_4W-a1fQW4fFAFEILbEY7
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.wired.com/2015/10/science-cant-say-babys-life-begins/amp&ved=2ahUKEwjNlP7Nl8btAhUszTgGHbEqCmYQFjAJegQIFxAB&usg=AOvVaw2RRXedPrgvNFOeJwwDcfhq&cf=1
Yes. It is. Plants are alive. But once again, no potential to become human.
And, the sentence would be “That’s not how *I* define alive”
Well the point of, people on machineries after birth ARE alive. Their brain functions, they respond to stimuli and stuff like that. A fetus before a heartbeat dosent
This is how I define it.