All they saw was after that comment, was he paid off Stormy.

Presumably

No proof

I just felt like some liberal were trying to have it both ways. They defended Clinton saying it was consensual ignoring the massive power dynamic and that the era was different.

But then they did not allow Trump any of those same mitigating factors when the "grab em" tape was released.

Im liberal and I have my biases I know... but I really despise hypocrisy

So here here comes the hammer

What Clinton did was absolutely unacceptable.

It's another reason I highly dislike the Clintons.

You will never see me defending the sort of behavior we are discussing regardless of a D or R after their names

I don't know how y'all handle the vast topics. My head is hiring already

Hurting

Just being used to the conversations.

Conversations we've probably had 10+ times before.

With many other people.

Yeah... true

Damn I think I found my new home

Y'all rock

Break for massie1223

Im a Tiny Pretty Blue Snowflake in a sea of Rebel Red.... so I have for sure had these conversations and I can often understand where the conservatives are coming from

@Massie1223 Cheers! Glad to have you here.

There are quite a few lefties here, @JD~Jordan ! I just don't think you're seeing them all.

Oh wow tiny snow flake. I'm taking a break now but can't wait to return to see your wisdom

LOL sorry... I mean were I live

@Massie1223, you just advanced to level 5!

Ahh.

Yes. I have noticed there are some fellow snowflakes here.... I just live deep int he Bible Belt

Going to Nashville Jan 7th through 11th

Going to Dalton Jan 4th then to DC on the 6th

Snow flakes make good snow cream

I don't favor it. The reality is that teens under 18 are having sex.

@Massie1223 LoL I agree

Yeah, I do see a huge difference. The 26 year old can actually be financially responsible for a pregnancy that may result. As far as experience goes, I'm dating a woman that had more experience at 14 than I have at 61. [She's older than me in case someone gets the wrong idea.] Now, can you articulate a different view?

Um no. First off, your personal relationship is simply anecdotal evidence and can hardly be considered to be the norm of how those relationships work out.

That aside, I think its speculative and likely not the case that very many 26 wanting to hook up with 14 year old is going the responsible type with a good job and insurance.

But, that really isn't even the point, is it?

The concern here is for the 14 year old CHILD with whom the 26 year old is having sex. The possibility of pregnancy is hardly the ONLY or even most important concern here.

I really find it super hard to understand why you think sex between a 14 year old and a 26 year old (or presumably older) should not be criminalized, baring any serious mental defect in the 26+ year old. And, if we are dealing with a severely mentally deficient individual your argument of employ to support the child of the child he had sex with completely dissipates. Public assistance is hardly a nice paycheck.

And before you point to the reverse where the male is the younger partner... I think both are equally as vile. It would also through a shit ton of cold water on your ability to pay for the baby theory.

I get the feeling you are far less concerned with Maxwell getting a fair trial and far more concerned about the legality of sexual intercourse with minors. But, that is just my take from reading your comments.

The mental maturity between 14 and 24 is not linear. It is not the same as the difference between the mental maturity of a 24 yr old and 34 yr old. On average the difference will in mental maturity will be stark.


Taking advantage of someone who lacks the agency to understand the impact of their “consensual” behavior is morally wrong. Just as it is morally wrong to have someone sign a contract intoxicated and hold someone to it, to have someone agree to a loan where they don’t understand the terms and take advantage of them financially or any other behavior where one party clearly lacks insight and agency as to the effect of an agreement.

If you don’t believe that is wrong, it’s hard to explain why your example falls into that category. As a society we must agree to an age that we believe most people will have agency to make these decisions. Maybe 16 or 17 is where the median is, but we must find an age that protects 99.99% of people. So it’s is cumulative not an average. 18 is where society has drawn that line in most cases.

The equal protection is simple. If you sleep with someone is physically mature but who lacks the maturity or agency to understand the full impact of their choices, at a later date they should be able to address any perceived or real damage you caused them, because you were presumably the person with agency. If they are beyond 18 and they lack agency, it’s likely there are other issues.

If you apply this rule of agency to situations in general, it’s unlikely you will find yourself taking advantage of people.

So it agency not experience which is central, in my opinion, to the morality of someone’s behavior, with regards to this issue.

You both ( @Gypsy and @JD~Jordan ) have made the case of why the 14 year old should not be having sex. Or why the older guy should not be taking advantage of the younger girl. [I prefer to stick with that one. The reverse is valid but let's just stick with the one case before trying to expand it.] Where you have failed is to justify why it is AOK for two 14 year olds to have sex. I never said that I 26 year old could be financially responsible; only that he has a better chance of being responsible than a 14 year old. @Gypsy 's equal protection argument totally misses. The 14 chooses a sex partner that is 18 and that is okay and legal. But if she chooses a 28 year then it is illegal. Explain that!

It has been made, structures of power/authority are what make it okay for kids to screw around with one another and not adults and kids. It's not an extremely difficult concept. Let me see if I can get something on that topic. 14 vs 18 is actually illegal in a lot of states, and it again, has to do with power structures and relationship dynamics.

You've just chosen not to research what we've discussed.

Harvey Weinstein disagrees with you

https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/publications/2019-01/Power%20Dynamics%20Handout_508.pdf Here is a short version of power dynamics.

14 vs 18 is legal in some states. It's difficult to come up with a one size fits all. The states do vary widely. I have researched it to a degree. I don't see an argument I can guy. I'll read that PDF shortly.

Ignore the white privilege stuff.

In Wyoming and North Dakota you can basically arrange marriage for anyone as long a judge agrees with it... Religion and cult followings have alot of power over peoples lives when it comes to marriage and sexual consent in these states...