Message from @Doc

Discord ID: 784180866061959219


2020-12-03 22:09:37 UTC  

And you commonly see in court cases here council for the presumed victim to act as co-prosecutor.

2020-12-03 22:09:39 UTC  

Now, not being in compliance with hunting laws (which requires you to be, you know, hunting) means that the under 18 rule applies.

2020-12-03 22:10:00 UTC  

What is in conflict with the presumption of innocence?

2020-12-03 22:10:13 UTC  

@Maw Ya, I saw that now. The entire law is a hunting law.

2020-12-03 22:10:18 UTC  

This is the argument, and it's a very persuasive argument, far more persuasive that (2)(a) means literally nothing in the statute.

2020-12-03 22:10:22 UTC  

@JD~Jordan Claiming a victim.

2020-12-03 22:11:07 UTC  

These things have to be public. Speedy and PUBLIC trial is what our Constitution says. So long as they did not participate there is no issue.

2020-12-03 22:11:32 UTC  

The STATE - the prosecutor is claiming there are victims

2020-12-03 22:11:57 UTC  

The other attorneys are just there to witness a public hearing

2020-12-03 22:12:05 UTC  

Not true.

2020-12-03 22:12:11 UTC  

I would be way way more concerned if they were not present

2020-12-03 22:12:28 UTC  

The task of victims council, at least here, is to look after the legal interests of the victim.

2020-12-03 22:12:37 UTC  

Of course

2020-12-03 22:12:43 UTC  

Not to merely witness.

2020-12-03 22:12:46 UTC  

But if they did not participate what is the problem?

2020-12-03 22:13:00 UTC  

Were they allowed to ask questions? (if so that is problematic)

2020-12-03 22:13:32 UTC  

The state claims a victim. That victim has council. This validates the victim`s status and effects jury and witnesses.

2020-12-03 22:14:03 UTC  

Just a simple question did they participate or not? I didnt watch after it froze on me

2020-12-03 22:14:11 UTC  

That is a problem. Not to say that it is wrong to have them there, victims do need legal assistance. Just that it is a situation where you have to weigh two principles against eachother.

2020-12-03 22:14:32 UTC  

OMG... did they participate?

2020-12-03 22:14:47 UTC  

@JD~Jordan I dont know. I didnt watch the whole thing. The principle was what we were discussing, not that exact case.

2020-12-03 22:14:59 UTC  

Principle versus occurrence.

2020-12-03 22:15:44 UTC  

Ok. Well unless they participated there is no issue. As if not for covid this hearing would have been in a court room open to the public and those lawyers could sit and watch like anyone else. The transcript to the hearing is also available

2020-12-03 22:16:37 UTC  

Just like we did

2020-12-03 22:16:43 UTC  

I wrote a very short brief of the hearing.

2020-12-03 22:16:57 UTC  

Thankies

2020-12-03 22:17:04 UTC  

Did you include the faceplant and Kyles dive?

2020-12-03 22:17:07 UTC  

Motions to dismiss charges 6 and 2 (Minor in possession of a firearm - Wis. Statute § 948.60 (2)(a)) & (Reckless endangerment in the first degree of Richie McGinniss - Wis. Statute § 941.30 (1)) were denied, but the arguments were heard due to the state accepting argument at this time.

Defense claimed that Rittenhouse was not wielding an SBR (short barreled rifle) nor a short-barreled shotgun, and therefore was exempt from liability to 948.60(2)(a), by referring to 948.60(3)(c) exemption. The defense was heard and prosecution countered that this defense was heard and denied prior to appealing this again. The state concurred that Mr. Rittenhouse was not hunting (as defense stated in their argument, specifically that the defendant was not hunting) and therefore the motion to dismiss charge 6 was considered moot as the 948.60(3)(c) exemption is specifically in reference to compliance to hunting regulations (compliance requires you to be hunting, if you're to be compliant of hunting regulations). The court concurred with the state, and the motion to dismiss was denied.

Defense claimed that Mr. McGinniss was not provably in danger, and made the mistaken claim that there wasn't any suggestion nor inference that McGinnis was ever in the line of fire from the complaint itself. The state countered that there was in fact language in the complaint that said explicitly that Mr. McGinnis was in the line of fire, and this was proven to be accurate upon reciting the paragraph in question within the original complaint. I believe the state at this point suggested to the defense that this is a preliminary hearing and not a trial, and the bringing of affirmative defenses were not appropriate to the standard of probable cause at this time. The court agreed, and charge 2's motion to dismiss was denied.

2020-12-03 22:17:16 UTC  

The state brought on their one and only witness, Detective Antaramian of the Kenosha Police department.
The defense had extra witnesses, but were willing to use the state's witness as long as they proved to be reliable upon cross-examination.
Cross-examination took place and the witness was questioned on 12 exhibits of screenshots of publicly available video evidence.
Upon completing cross-examination the defense was satisfied with the state's witness, and required bringing forth no other witnesses.

State claimed probable cause was established and requested bind over of the defendant, the defense disagreed.
Court ruled in favor of the state, and concluded that the case should go to trial.

Defense did not request a substitution of the trial judge.

2020-12-03 22:19:43 UTC  

@Maw awesome. Can I hire you? 😄

2020-12-03 22:20:26 UTC  

Yeppers... probable cause is such a low standard. And since he is out on bail he probably should want probable cause found.

The way it works in this state is crazy. If a person is arrested on a felony and they have a preliminary hearing and the judge finds NO Probable Cause, thus dismissing the case - The Prosecutor could choose to get an indictment and since the other case was dismissed the defendant would be arrested again and have to post another bond.

2020-12-03 22:20:58 UTC  

@Doc Maybe!

2020-12-03 23:04:55 UTC  

I must admit, I lol'd at Grosskreutz falling off the chair

2020-12-03 23:04:59 UTC  

or maybe the chair broke? not sure

2020-12-03 23:05:28 UTC  

on painkillers maybe?

2020-12-03 23:05:46 UTC  

that might explain the vacant stare

2020-12-03 23:25:53 UTC  

Wow yeah... look at those pupils definitely on downers

2020-12-03 23:30:19 UTC  

lol

2020-12-03 23:30:26 UTC  

no one else seemed to notice

2020-12-03 23:31:32 UTC  

he's like on the floor for 50 seconds