Trump and Melania have Covid

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/trump-tests-positive-covid

I hope Trumpy will be fine soon 🥳 We organize a prayer group for him this evening with some friends 😛 And discuss some philosophy... 😄 God bless him. He will surely be fine! 🍕 We need him to be ok👌

A utilitarian may wish for his death. Are they wrong?

I really would never wish for the death anyone

@Malachi I think there's an important distinction between wishing for someone's death and observing that someone's death has positive consequences (but preferring that those positive effects come about in some other way). And if someone is doing something sufficiently bad, and *their death is the only way to stop it*, I think it would actually be wrong **not** to want their death.

To take an extreme example (not trying to argue that Trump meets this standard), if killing Hitler were the only way to stop the holocaust, then I think it would be wrong to not want him to die - based on the way I set up the hypothetical situation, not wanting Hitler's death is implicitly equivalent to wanting the holocaust to continue, since those things are inextricably linked. So I don't think someone can categorically say that it's always wrong to wish for someone's death.

> @Malachi I think there's an important distinction between wishing for someone's death and observing that someone's death has positive consequences (but preferring that those positive effects come about in some other way). And if someone is doing something sufficiently bad, and *their death is the only way to stop it*, I think it would actually be wrong **not** to want their death.
>
> To take an extreme example (not trying to argue that Trump meets this standard), if killing Hitler were the only way to stop the holocaust, then I think it would be wrong to not want him to die - based on the way I set up the hypothetical situation, not wanting Hitler's death is implicitly equivalent to wanting the holocaust to continue, since those things are inextricably linked. So I don't think someone can categorically say that it's always wrong to wish for someone's death.
@Katelyn I disagree

Lemme exaplain you

There has always been hatred towards Jews even before Hitler

Hitler is someone who has organised that hatred in such a way that it resulted in those mass killing a

If it wasn't for Hitler someone competent like Hitler would have done it

Note that in the way I set up my hypothetical, Hitler dying would guarantee that the holocaust would stop. I'm not saying that's necessarily true - I'm using a thought experiment to elucidate some of the underlying theoretical moral principles.

Israel wouldnt exist without Hitler

checkmate utlilitarians

Technically you're still using a utilitarian framework if you're claiming the existence of Israel is a net benefit

> Note that in the way I set up my hypothetical, Hitler dying would guarantee that the holocaust would stop. I'm not saying that's necessarily true - I'm using a thought experiment to elucidate some of the underlying theoretical moral principles.
@Katelyn see we have to identify the root cause for the problem, Hitler lived a life on the belief which has been down to him from his elders that Jews are parasites

He acted on those false beliefs

Let's simplify this

So does terrorists

But by killing Hitler you would kill someone competent enough to execute and organize the killings, if not Hitler some other competent with those beliefs would have taken his position

Let's say that there's some evil dictator named Bitler who was responsible for the horrible torture and death of millions of people. We happened to have the information that if we killed Bitler, then this horrible tortue and killing would stop. Would it be wrong to want to kill Bitler, assuming killing Bitler were the only way to stop him?

Think of every CRPG youve played. Theres always a third choice that doesn’t involve disadvantaging either party.

Life isn't a videogame.

I don't think that there is a distinction between wishing a death and pulling the trigger yourself from a utilitarian perspective. More so Bentham than Mill.

> Let's say that there's some evil dictator named Bitler who was responsible for the horrible torture and death of millions of people. We happened to have the information that if we killed Bitler, then this horrible tortue and killing would stop. Would it be wrong to want to kill Bitler, assuming killing Bitler were the only way to stop him?
@Katelyn
People just don't kill other people for fun, and if they really do then they are a psychotic mental ailments

Well in that case we have medications

Sure, but say that we weren't able to intervene and get him those medications.

But in most cases people act on their fallacious beliefs

That's true too, but I'm not sure it's helping your argument.

Would you end one life in order to prevent 200,000 deaths?

Yes. I think it would evil not to.

All I'm saying is that killing is not the only option, cuz we have to observe what actually led them to do so. In Hitler's case it's the long bred hatred towards Jews handed down to him from his elders

if we already have the hypothetical power to kill said person, why not use our hypothetical to kill patient zero in the wet market?

that would save even more lives

From a utilitarian standpoint, that would be the right thing to do. I'm not a 1000% committed utilitarian, but in this case it does seem like it would be worth it.

I agree that B(H)itler did what he did because of his delusions, but those can very hard to talk people out of once they're committed to the path of large scale genocide.

or, we could use the hypothetical to go back in time to influence the CCP to ban ritualistic/traditional reasons for animal consumption.

then we would probably prevent SARS too

> I agree that B(H)itler did what he did because of his delusions, but those can very hard to talk people out of once they're committed to the path of large scale genocide.
@Katelyn
Here B(hitler ) has a commanility with lot many people around him. And he gained mass support cuz they all share something in common. ( Hatred towards Jews).
If it's not for the commanility Hitler himself wouldn't have accounted for that genocide.

banning usury wouldve also prevented WWII

He rose to power using those common grounds