Can anyone else explain to me what is going on? I responded to Trav, and instead I get a guy that is comparing divorce to murder, but I'm the asshole?

JP. Your argument has no teeth. You have used a TON of words to say nothing at all. Your current way out of this is to tell us why we should care about your "Sin" concept. At this point it is an unfounded claim akin to "I like icecream."

Michael Sandel wrote a book called "Justice." It has some contribution about societal wellbeing from a religious perspective. I highly suggest you read it.

Until you can put together a cogent argument in which your God concept is useful I am not obliged to respond to it.

From this point on, I’ll read what Malachi writes, but I will not respond directly to him.

> From this point on, I’ll read what Malachi writes, but I will not respond directly to him.
@JPMcGlone You may return to responding to me at any time with no judgment.
I am merciful.

One sin tends to bring along more sins. I agree with that. Unless the individual rationalizes and changes his mind. Committing a sin while being aware of it and also recognizing your own weakness but still asking for divine help has more value than just sinning and never giving a dime on it.

Zino, the worst part is when we’ve justified a society that forces everyone else to pay the consequences of these sin. People like Malachi will deny its sin, then, when they force you to pay for it, literally call it “consent” — Malachi said in no unclear terms the other day that it doesn’t matter if I agree to giving drug addicts free, clean needles, that since I live in a society, society can force me to consent to paying for it.

How broken a mind do you need to conflate force and consent?

I wonder if we vote to legalize rape, if that’s just... forced consent. Actually, that’s literally the bizarreness of a show like Handmaids Tale.

Zino. You are doing the same thig that JP does. Please tell me why I should care about sin. Without that baseline, this is also preaching.

So sin begets sin, which then survives by forcing others to pay the costs of that sin.

There’s a strong case for disassociation (sodom and Gomorrah) and there’s a strong case for letting the weak and sinful choose to die or to choose the relationships they submit to (indentured servitude). The extreme is when people start making a case for killing the weak and sinful, but you can see how they might REACT that way after generations of being forced to pay the costs.

Let's start with the case for killing paedophile priests.

You guys are making assertions without bringing anyone with you. The defeater for divine command theory is simply not accepting it as valid.

People like malachi can only afford to not care about sin because their sin is paid for by the rest of society (and Christ, but we’ll avoid that route for now).

If it wasn’t, he would care about sin.

He’s probably pretty healthy and young, so he can pay a lot of the costs of his sin himself, but that won’t last, and the fact is, he isn’t paying for the sin he’s enabling in this world.

If every sinner paid the cost of their own sin, we wouldn’t have these issues. But they can’t; that’s literally the point. It’s basically by definition

Ola. I'm not for capitol punishment.

@JP I don't believe you. Please make an argument for your position.

Some people can imagine themselves as pedophiles and the thought of stripping a pedophile of his rights or life upsets them

That's a stupid thing to say.

^^ 😄

> That's a stupid thing to say.
@ola

I want to assign this to a hotkey, just to have it when I need it. 😄

I'm going for a walk. Back later.

True things are not stupid to say, Ola.

Some people do think that way

I didn’t say “all people” but I’ll note your reaction

Uh me busted a huge paedophile now.

That isn’t what I said

I think it’s clear that people who would like to get away with X, will help make sure people who do worse than X get away with that, too.

Besides, if people can get away with worse than x, then you surely can get away with X right? (I hope using variables in a point isn’t what loses ya)

My original point was : the religious have no greater claim to society than elected politicians or secular communities do - in fact, the religious have had their go at running societies for long enough, maybe it is time to try something else.

Some people would like to see pedophiles get away with their crimes if that means they can get away with their own, lesser, crimes.

Isn’t this EXACTLY how many people justify terrible behavior?

Young men and women are burning down buildings. They know that’s wrong, but in their mind it’s LESS WRONG than police brutality

Yea so, I’m not proposing that religious people run your life. I’m saying that you can’t run theirs.

Christians are way too nice and don’t fight for their convictions. Muslims would have had you all killed already lol

I've never met anyone who wants paedophiles to get away with their crimes tbh.

It’s sad! But it’s true

Californian just lessened the criminal charge for pedophilia if it’s within 10 years and of the same sex

So a 11 year old boy and a 21 year old man is a lesser crime. Or at least, it’s being proposed.

Bizarre

At least it's a crime, I guess. That's progress by some religious track records.

It’s a crime to us too

Malachi. You can choose not to care about sin. That is entirely your choice. I am willing to accept that in order for a society to function, some innocent people must pay the bills for the ones who sin. It doesn't matter me, if it's within a reasonable limit. A limit which we can all agree upon.

We are all sinners. Some of just constantly repent and try to do better. Others of us justify the sins

“Well I guess if everyone does it, it’s ok!” No

Zino, charity is different from theft

Yea

God pays for all sin, and through His grace, we are here at all.

So yes, we are called to give charity and to pay the cost of sin: it’s called forgiveness

But taxes are not theft.

But you cannot force me to forgive.