Evidences are really for the already believer for building of the faith. The non-believer has to get over his bias and world filter before anything else can get through.

A simple how do you know what you know? We as believers have a source outside of ourselves which can inform us. What does the non-believer have to ground or account for what they know?

Feeelings

and you can ask, Could you be wrong about anything and everything you know? Then how do you know that your feelings are accurate and correct?

The Greeks seek wisdom, the Jews seek a sign.

yes, you can see that the discussion completely would be completely out of the evidence route. You can speak all day about the history of Jesus, his actual existence, the eyewitnesses ect. Its much like putting Jesus on trial and letting them be a Judge if it is so. I dont think they have the qualifications to be that Judge from the outset.

Man cannot know unless God reveals Himself.

Right, so that person needs to realize that they dont know anything of themselves but already know God because they do know things.

Noy sure I follow that one.

I think is was Paul who wrote that even the heathens do things without benifit of the Prophets that the Jews had that were showing that they knew God in there actions.

I guess I'm getting a little bleary.

Knowing lying was wrong, stealing, false witness, murder ect and a bunch of what we call moral things.

OK I get it. Natural man seeing the right order of the universe.

yes, didnt get it from within themselves but from the outside in. It was there all the time and they discovered it.

Spiritual revelation changes the perspective from outside to inside because the Holy Spirit works from wiyhin

Yes, that is that worldview christians have. We can know things because we know him who know everything. He did promise to tell us things if we would ask. We dont have the I know because of my feelings and because of my feelings I know. (circle logic). We have him who we can ask.

We break the circle

Ours is more of a spiral, always leading to the center and emanating out from there

That and God created logic too. Logic will remain whether we are here or not to use it. Its out there to be discovered.

Man is much better at defeating logic than using it

Try this one on for size. We are spiritual beings currently having a human experience. This is a temporary condition.

Absolutely

So the biggest thing I see is the problem of Evil. First Evil does exists and the complaint is why doesnt God do something about it. There is horrible tragic things happening and seems no God intervention. Bad things to Good people and Good things to bad people.

The conclusion becomes there must be no God.

The war in heaven is settled but the battle still rages until God puts the enemy under Jesus footstool. Aside from that His children are still being molded into kings and priests. Much dross to be removed from the gold.

There is some comfort in knowing that God has promised it will be eliminated. Parable about the weeds being allowed to grow with the wheat. Not being removed immediately because it would take the young wheat with it at this point. The wheat has to mature and harvested and then the weeds will be gathered and burned. Speculation on my part is that we have to be changed to be like Jesus to truly be free of Evil. The harvest is the change, the ready to go home. Till then the Evil will be with us and plague us.

It doesn't just plague us. God uses it to help mold us.

I would not have known the good without the presence of the evil.

Paul complained that he had troubles and so wished to be with the Lord, but he had things to do here first. I think God has things to do here first too, like get his lost sheep back to the fold. Truly its about no being afraid of death anymore because it isn't the end of us like Evil would have it.

Amen

My old eyes are hurting.I must retire.

You can really take a deep dive into the motivations of Evil's goal to wipeout mankind, to kill, steal and destroy. It goes back to before the Eden's Garden.

Rest well, and blessings to you and yours

No one here should expect to be listening to the truth, just because someone else said so... Trust God and use the gift of discernment. Then shut up and enjoy the many varieties in life.

Get yer popcorn.

Good morning everyone....

I'm throwing this out there today. Several topics, people and opinions are tossed in here daily. Do prohets sell their prophecies for monetary gain? Is that proper? Should you pay for God's message? Do we follow man/ woman or the words of God? I see often about donations first then prayers, it all seems for financial gain. Every bit of info is costs money. Can you purchase your way into heaven? Do you pay for faith? Love? Jesus Christ is our Savior, He is the truth, way and life. Blessed be His name.

I agree that 'prophets' (and the rest, teachers, pastors, evangelists etc) should not use the act of serving Gods people as a means of monetary gain. There are, a couple of scriptures pertaining to that. The first that comes to mind is, "Don't muzzle the ox that treads out the corn". The best way to accomplish this is through 'freewill' offerings, not money begged for or demanded.

Another thing I have a problem with is the Idea of bringing tithes up from the Old Testament to the new. I don't think it can be supported in the scriptures. If someone can discuss this issue I'd like to talk about it.

Leviticus 27:30