Message from @The Big Oof
Discord ID: 488136878801944577
this is an even worse point, razor
Mexicans are loyal to neither the United States or the United States Government
Right, so I'm an American
Should I be loyal to other ethnic Americans?
eh, too vague
Supposing I'm a German
should I be loyal to other ethnic germans?
Yes, you should prefer Germans to other people.
However this only applies to groups that are advantageous for the members. If membership is disadvantageous then the benefits of undermining group cohesion may be worth the costs
okay
so
why should I?
Ah now that takes us back to ideals and first principles
Fun stuff
To ensure your nation's longevity
Going back to the American point
Please don't
Are you a nihilist out of curiousity?
can we just presume Americans are a single ethnicity?
Moth
Eh, not really
How would you describe yourself philosophically
I'm a utilitarian
Well that's where the disagreement lies.
I am not and I assume razor isnt either
So naturally a utilitarian wont value group cohesion the way razor and I do
But, as I was mentioning earlier...
Why should I place my loyalty in a backwoods farmer with different philosophical, ideological, and religious views than me, though does belong to my nation
Over someone, who is likewise an urbanite and shares a common philosophy, ideology, and religion, but just so happens to be a different ethnicity?
Because the backwoods farmer would most likely defend you if your country was attacked, first of all
@SilverLining if you're a utilitarian you shouldn't.
Easy
Wheras the urbanite would most likely defend his ethnic kin first
All we can do here is debate first principles themselves
Its like we're trying to speak different languages
Why should I defend a nation which holds different ideological and philosophical principles than me?
You shouldn't.
You don't really have to
**fixed question
But you should defend your country