Message from @Zayan Watchel
Discord ID: 494345172142784515
Thats a fair position, but i disagree that the government should be secular. I dont think the church should run the government, but religious doctrine should be integrated at every level. Without religious vow taking and symbolism, individuals reigns supreme and exacerbates the principle-agent problem in government.
The best alignment of interests with regards to the principle agent problem is, of course, monarchy, wherein the problem in theory disappears altogether.
It is not the states job to mandate worship. However, it should reflect the religion of the nation. The United States in its origin was Christian at every level while not mandating religious beliefs to any citizen.
no, but you said in government
i think that a prereq for government work would have to be religious membership. Possibly exclusive to one denom, possibly not. Depends how much people try to create religions to skirt this requirement
and its not a requirement to worship, more membership and adherence to codes and so on.
Many states passed laws that required one be Christian to hold office. Would you bring that back?
I would, yeah
the key to the principle-agent problem is that if you cannot align interests, which is often impossible in cases of asymmetrical ownership, then you must align values
otherwise you get perverse outcomes
I don't care if it's a Christian or a bloody Hindu in office, if the people voted them in, and they don't royally fuck up or overstep their (should-be-limited) power, then we can let them do their thing.
@Zayan Watchel in <#452955238186614794> you said that a nation must have a culture, and that a people without a culture are bound to fail. Wouldn't having someone rule over you with a different culture be detrimental to the nation? There is no way that a Hindu has the same culture as a Christian. So why shouldn't a nation require it's leaders to hold to the same culture?
A Hindu can be of similar culture to a Christian, if you think of culture on a scale larger then surface items like religion, food, etc. it(religion) becomes such an insignificant tidbit that it really shouldn't affect shit.
Also, culture should be organized by the people, the state shouldn't be involved.
And I'm an Athiest who holds the same culture as any other Canadian, so I shouldn't be kept out of office.
culture is scalar
@Zayan Watchel that is such bs. Religion has a huge effect on ones culture. Look at the culture of every Christian nation vs every Muslim one. Even the worst Christian nation is better than the best Muslim nation for the average individual.
Sure, but you just cited culture on a macro scale, a country, when we're discussing the culture of individuals running for office.
All you have to do is look at minority communities to see that their different religious values always separate them from the wider society
As an individual who could run for office, I don't want to be kept out of office.
Sure, but you can put religion aside and be a Canadian, for example, first. It's not impossible, just unlikely, it would be unjust to simply assert that only christians should be permitted to run for office.
You're still citing collectives, not individuals.
Your individual interest doesn't matter with regards to the state. The state isn't there to specifically serve you
It is, actually, if it didn't serve the people what good would it be?
Canada is a joke. you have killed your own culture and nation
Agreed. It's a shithole thanks to our piece of shit manlady.
Still haven't addressed my point. I'm an atheist who is culturally the same as any other person in this country, Christian or no, why should I be kept out of office?
I did address it. The state isn't there to serve you. Its purpose is to serve the nation. That includes all individuals, but primarily it is the nation as a whole it serves. Every politician has the responsibility to serve. If they can't do that properly they should not be allowed to hold the office. A hindu does not have the interests of the Christian nation in mind and thus cannot properly be a public servant.
The fact you think you can be atheist and still hold the same culture as Christians shows your ignorance of what a culture is. I can guarantee there is an entire Christian culture you are not privy to as an atheist, unless you live like a Christian despite your beliefs.
Your attempts at trying to bring it back to Canada are vacuous since Canada is so far gone from what a good society should operate like. Canada needs an entire reordering of its society. Part of that includes imposing the cultural heritage onto minorities. If they don't like it they can leave.
Well, Canada is my country of residence so that's what I used. Replace "Canada" with "America" and you're set. What's your definition of "Nation."
and why should government serve a "Christian Nation?"
In every way except religion, I have the same culture as a Christian. Does that make you feel better?
The nation is a group of people who hold a common heritage, tradition, religion, and/or ethnicity.
your assertion that you do means nothing
Sure.
So America isn't a nation?
Nope
Because if it's not that's a pretty useless definition.
it is comprised of multiple nations
Great. So why can't I run for office again?
I mean, you say I can't serve *the nation* correctly, but there's multiple in America?
Why do you think so many states constantly threaten secession? The state cannot serve all of the nations properly which leads to strife between the different regions.