plus the ecological damage the system exerts is insane

Then everyone is weak. Which clearly isnt true.

everyone who isn't autonomous is weak, correct

Technology doesn't disable autonomy. It merely encourages it.

that's actually the most retarded thing i think you've said

How else would I be having this discussion with you?

this discussion isn't proof of our autonomy, its just a surrogate activity that we spend our time doing being as there is nothing we need to do to sustain ourselves

it's proof that we arent autonomous actually

I dont need to go on this though.

i know

So yes I'm fully independent.

The thing is many wouldn't survive without all these measures in place, in older times you had to work a lot more to survive, which created a stronger population.

if you're fully independent, come back within a month without consuming anything which another person was involved in distributing or making

you go to the store and buy things the system puts there

that's how you live

you're not autonomous at all

Because of all of this technology and industry, it's incredibly easy for anyone to live, however they sign their lives away to industry, completely dependent on it.

Trading is pretty autonomous if you ask me.

And we all do it, really.

If I make a food and sell it in stores, isn’t it me putting it there, not the system

@FLanon that's right

How else am I supposed to survive? Hunting and risking my life?

What if I’m a farmer and I grow my own food

The system doesn’t put food there I do

Green revolution

So there's always something

Im not going vegan if that's what you're asking.

Farmers have cattle too

That's not what the green revolution is

@Rhenic could you do it without a tractor, or any technology that you didn't make yourself from fundamental resources around you? even the concept of a "store" is the result of the system

If I tried hard enough yes

If I wanted to go somewhere and be antisocial then I'd isolate myself. Eventually I'd slowly go insane.

How did we farm thousands of years ago

We didn’t have tractors

With fertilizers, tractors, that sort of thing, it's very rare in this day and age to have a farm that isn't reliant on some sort of technology.

those farmers were autonomous

The thing is without tractors we wouldn't be able to sustain the mass consumption that exists nowadays

the people who relied on them for sustinence were not

That's the point

We also rely on food and the environment. Does that make us weak?

That's just the forces of nature