Message from @diversity_is_racism
Discord ID: 304594176857866241
both
so what the symbol is explicitly and what it implies
would both be the symbol, else it's just a pictogram or something
or a word
I mean I'm not out to convince you of what is prior and what is not, but I just wanted to clarify
that this is where I was coming from with that
VISUALLY ENCODED TRUTH
And the essential thing, psychologically, is that in dreams, fantasies, and other exceptional states of mind the most far-fetched mythological motifs and symbols can appear autochthonously at any time, often, apparently, as the result of particular influences, traditions, and excitations working on the individual, but more often without any sign of them. These "primordial images" or "archetypes," as I have called them, belong to the basic stock of the unconscious psyche and cannot be explained as personal acquisitions. Together they make up that psychic stratum which has been called the collective unconscious.
The existence of the collective unconscious means that individual consciousness is anything but a tabula rasa and is not immune to predetermining influences. On the contrary, it is in the highest degree influenced by inherited presuppositions, quite apart from the unavoidable influences exerted upon it by the environment. The collective unconscious comprises in itself the psychic life of our ancestors right back to the earliest beginnings. It is the matrix of all conscious psychic occurrences, and hence it exerts an influence that compromises the freedom of consciousness in the highest degree, since it is continually striving to lead all conscious processes back into the old paths
-Jung
THIS CONCEPT IS NOT CONSISTENT TO ME
the word encoded is a best-fit
WHAT HE CALLS SYMBOL IS MORE ACCURATE METAPHOR
OR KENNING
dunno what a kenning is
IS CONSCIOUSNESS FUNDAMENTALLY METAPHORICAL? IT WORKS BY COMPARISON
I think at the base level
consciousness is yes, fundamentally "metaphorical"
KENNING = THE USE OF REPEATED TROPES, LIKE "THE WINE-DARK SEA," TO EXPRESS CONTINUITY OF MEANING IN A WORK
i.e. as dreams
YES, I CAN AGREE WITH THAT
IT IS ALSO DIRECTION
AND SENSATION WHICH IS INDEFINED BECAUSE IT IS AT A LEVEL LOWER THAN CONSCIOUSNESS
sure, but nevertheless, it would derive from that realm
MORE LIKELY THE OTHER WAY AROUND
intuition would sniff out the truth or deeper meaning in metaphor
METAPHOR DERIVES FROM INTUITION
INTUITION IS THAT THERE IS ORDER, WHICH MEANS REPEATED STRUCTURES, AND THEREFORE METAPHOR WOULD WORK
there would be metaphor as understood, but there would be an ur-metaphorical source I think
AND SO WE RELY ON IT AS EXPRESSION
again, Jung
in the above, what Jung calls "primordial images"
UR-METAPHORICAL = THE INTUITIVE CONCEPT OF ORDER, I WOULD THINK
"ARCHETYPES" IS AN ESOTERIC CONCEPT
THINK OF IT THIS WAY
THIS IS METAPHOR AT ITS PUREST
this is an esoteric discussion anyway
THERE IS A STRUCTURE WHICH APPEARS IN MANY PLACES
go on
THEREFORE, IT MUST BE KNOWN BY ITS SIMPLEST DISTINCT EXPRESSION
AND ALL OTHERS ARE VARIANTS OF THAT