Message from @Nester

Discord ID: 355837664550715394


2017-09-08 22:02:06 UTC  

The leaders definitely would be.

2017-09-08 22:02:10 UTC  

what would distinguish the one from the other

2017-09-08 22:03:03 UTC  

One being genuinely misled.

2017-09-08 22:04:16 UTC  

but let us say they know of the existence of the hadeeth also, and also believe that it is a genuine document - in fact, they publicly affirm that very fact twice a year in a big meeting.

2017-09-08 22:05:24 UTC  

But don't follow it?

2017-09-08 22:05:41 UTC  

yes

2017-09-08 22:05:52 UTC  

and kick out anyone who does, and call them apostates

2017-09-08 22:06:09 UTC  

and become suspicious of anyone who so much admits to owning any hadeeth compilations

2017-09-08 22:06:22 UTC  

Not following some hadeeth would make you an apostate, not following some hadeeth would just make you a sinner, not following some hadeeth isn't ideal but you wouldn't have sinned not following it.

2017-09-08 22:06:39 UTC  

But rejecting it wholesale, while thinking it should be followed, would be apostasy.

2017-09-08 22:07:07 UTC  

They would be apostates in your scenario.

2017-09-08 22:07:47 UTC  

from where I am sitting, they would be horrible followers of the prophet if they believed they had a huge body of work directly from the people who followed the prophet in person, yet did not diligently read it and try to abide by it

2017-09-08 22:08:49 UTC  

They wouldn't be followers at all, if they're not actually following him.

2017-09-08 22:09:19 UTC  

that's right

2017-09-08 22:09:20 UTC  

They'd just be placating their communities

2017-09-08 22:09:44 UTC  

And be worse than non believers perhaps

2017-09-08 22:10:09 UTC  

that does seem reasonable, doesn't it?

2017-09-08 22:10:30 UTC  

Perfectly.

2017-09-08 22:10:56 UTC  

so the whole hypothetical was not about your religion, but mine

2017-09-08 22:11:05 UTC  

I am having some trouble and not quite sure what to do

2017-09-08 22:11:50 UTC  

Christianity is just social glue for a lot of people now.

2017-09-08 22:12:04 UTC  

I am not a christian, I am a mormon

2017-09-08 22:12:37 UTC  

What happened?

2017-09-08 22:13:34 UTC  

we believe in two specific prophets, who gave us a specific book we take as holy scripture. Mainstream mormons listen very intently to this book and to the modern leaders of the church. However, approximately 9,500 pages of modern and carefully documented sermons by the early leaders of our religion exist, however nobody follows them, nobody talks about them, but everyone knows they exist. They are a big giant taboo. I am starting to be called an apostate for directly reading the compiled words of our own prophets.

2017-09-08 22:14:54 UTC  

Why do they discount the sermons?

2017-09-08 22:16:12 UTC  

they don't know. If you ask them they can't tell you. However, they sneeringly refer to them as "non canonical, apocrypha"

2017-09-08 22:16:26 UTC  

"early leaders" are they prophets?

2017-09-08 22:16:39 UTC  

we believe so, yes, as prerequisite to believing in our religion

2017-09-08 22:16:56 UTC  

Why do they refer to them as apocrypha?

2017-09-08 22:17:06 UTC  

because they are not canonized by our leaders today.

2017-09-08 22:17:50 UTC  

Are current leaders prophets as well?

2017-09-08 22:18:10 UTC  

allegedly

2017-09-08 22:18:39 UTC  

If it's a sure thing that earlier leaders were prophets, then it's a sure thing that current leaders aren't.

2017-09-08 22:19:11 UTC  

As contradiction couldn't exist.

2017-09-08 22:19:39 UTC  

that does seem clear, doesn't it?

2017-09-08 22:19:41 UTC  

Unless earlier teachings were explicitly timed.

2017-09-08 22:20:07 UTC  

no, they were not timed, they explicitly stated they were never to be overturned.

2017-09-08 22:20:23 UTC  

You are not a mormon

2017-09-08 22:20:25 UTC  

They used language such as "the eternal law of heaven, which cannot be withdrawn," and "thus it always was and ever shall be"

2017-09-08 22:20:43 UTC  

Yes, then.

2017-09-08 22:20:46 UTC  

It's clear as day.