Message from @Sh0t

Discord ID: 653194700353962034


2019-12-08 08:36:41 UTC  

So far all the ones I've eaten have been delicious

2019-12-08 09:24:21 UTC  

EROI of the alternatives is pretty bad, basically you cant build a solar panel plant using solar panels

2019-12-08 09:26:35 UTC  

i love nuclear, but nuclear doesn't change the thermodynamic issue, it helps the greenhouse gas issue

2019-12-08 09:27:21 UTC  

EROI of nuclear is shaky as well because they are very expensive to construct, mining uranium is hit or miss, def will cause resource fights if world shifts, plus it would require a MASSIVE infrastructure reconfigure

2019-12-08 09:28:24 UTC  

nuclear replaces greenhause gas issue with radiation issue of the nuclear waste and the infrequent safety issues relating to meltdwns, etc

2019-12-08 09:28:53 UTC  

there is no free lunch with energy, you are going to pay, the only solution is to use less than the tipping point amount thermodynamically, and pollution handling wise

2019-12-08 09:29:38 UTC  

any reasoning that attempts to get around the thermodynamics is going to be wrong.

2019-12-08 09:30:57 UTC  

How much waste heat we radiate away into space is the hard limit on how much energy we use in any form, the greenhouse gas issue REDUCES our ability to radiate away waste heat

2019-12-08 09:32:44 UTC  

people have tried to politely explain that for decades, but typically some magical solution is offered
The peak oil issue is also a major issue because if we don't make the SHIFT to other sources, we wont have the energy to do so in the future

2019-12-08 09:33:20 UTC  

If we dont use the oil we have now to build the solar plants and nuclear power plants, and other renewables, we wont have the petro fuel to run the machines to build the alternatives

2019-12-08 09:34:32 UTC  

so yes, a 'green new deal' of some type is an absolute necessisty, AOC's plan is weak sauce, but the label is appropriate

2019-12-08 09:36:39 UTC  

the politely worded books and articles have been around for a long time, the lies and disinformation 'the right' spews back is demonic. the screeching was the predictable result. The left hasn't always been green either, but typically the left has more science types in it that at least understand thermodynamics

2019-12-08 09:39:43 UTC  

It's similar to the economics issue the right and neoliberal dems are also bad about, trying to use a household or single business example scaled up to the whole economy is not how you analyze a complex system. Unfortunately, the error is so fundamental, there is a 'cognitative barrier' to communication
In some people, both domains are united, people like Tim Garrett, whom is an atmospheric scientist that also works with economists to build models, linked by complex system analysis

2019-12-08 09:41:13 UTC  

we also have another problem because the efficiency of our heat-differential utilizing machinery will drop as the ambient temp. rises, so like peak oil, we can 'run out' of heat differential

2019-12-08 09:46:36 UTC  

more energy to COOL the engine just to get some basic efficiency on the operating side, resulting in an expontential rise in the energy cost to perform the work, which will obviously reach a diminishing returns point, where the EROI becomes negative. Some operations are already EROI negative, but we are willing to pay that cost to get work down that cannot be done by other means. This is OK for a solo operation, but obviously the entire system cannot operate this way.

The only free lunches we get are solar energy coming in, for a while, and waste heat radiating off planet. Hydrocarbons and carbohydrates are stored solar energy that take a lot of time to convert into usable forms(millions of years or planet/animal growing cycle). Uranium and similar are made by supernovae, obviously we can't reproduce that on earth.

2019-12-08 09:47:50 UTC  

Hydro power is sort of a free lunch, as is wind power, once you build the dams and wind turbines, but they have downstream effects that we have to be careful of, else we can lower their efficiency into negative territory by interfering wtih the water cycle and the weather systems, which are also effected by the other climate change issues

2019-12-08 10:56:17 UTC  

Solar sounds good but we don't have a good way to store the energy. Peak usage during nights are a problem (solar pannels, figures). Even if batteries are to be used, the batter lose max capacity over time, falling to ~70% over ~5000 cycles, and declining. Because those batteries have to be replaced over time, the EROI is basically even. Batteries are not only expensive to construct, but the mining process for the minerals spits out a massive amount of pollutants. Solar isn't a free lunch in energy (yet).

There is a solution though. Just gotta wait on some smartie to come up with eco-friendly batteries with good effeciency

2019-12-08 11:17:52 UTC  

theoretically, there isn't that much that can be done, you pay for everything in matter as well. it will take a re-design of infrastructure to skip the electricity storage part and store mechanical energy

2019-12-08 11:18:18 UTC  

like using daylight solar to raise a train car to a height and then letting gravity work to move the train car at night, etc

2019-12-08 11:18:49 UTC  

storing up pressurized gas, spring tension, etc. old school steampunk stuff but using high tech inputs to get the potential energy

2019-12-08 11:22:32 UTC  

could do roman-style aquaducts that use daytime solar energy to elevate the water up for night time flow downhill

2019-12-08 11:25:35 UTC  

low wattage world would also benefit from bringing back old school mechanical advntage techniques that we have sort of ignored for a long time because we normally just pour in more energy to get same result now

2019-12-08 11:26:15 UTC  

low wattage electric engine connected to a pulley system can do same work as high wattage electric engine, but obviously requires the pulleys and snatch blocks, etc, or whatever

2019-12-08 11:31:29 UTC  

by solar coming in, i didnt mean solar power, i meant solar energy from the sun, which powers stuff like agriculture, etc

2019-12-08 11:32:06 UTC  

fossil fuels are just stored solar energy that came from carbon-based lifeforms transformed into an energy storage

2019-12-09 03:48:54 UTC  

A large part of pollution is caused by transportation, so a combination of hydrogen and electric cars and trucks can fix that.

2019-12-09 03:49:33 UTC  

Just that it takes time to develop and bring costs down.

2019-12-09 03:51:51 UTC  

Factory pollution is hardest, as a lot of electronics and plastics are pollution intensive.

2019-12-09 07:36:28 UTC  

major issue with transport is going to be building cities to the scale of humans instead of vehicles

2019-12-09 07:37:20 UTC  

would also fix the aesthetic issue in the us as well, when everything is designed for cars instead of people, you get ugly streets, parking lot craters everywhere, and fat ass people

2019-12-09 07:39:07 UTC  

unfortunately in the US, when that is brought up, a huge counter offensive comes out about 'evil commies wanting to take away your f-150s' and all this crazy shit

2019-12-09 16:21:27 UTC  

Better public transportation also helps btw

2019-12-09 17:31:31 UTC  

commie

2019-12-09 19:21:13 UTC  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/518779466512596992/653677546805788672/Screenshot_131.png

2019-12-11 17:44:33 UTC  

"bang my wife an animal" 🤢

2019-12-11 17:45:00 UTC  

Rockstar without having to get on stage?

2019-12-11 17:45:14 UTC  

Cringey as fuck boomer