Message from @McBacoon
Discord ID: 523645524352434206
289 accomplishments in 20 months unreal and so overlooked
Back when the article was published even more now
The list is so long maybe I’ll post all 289 accomplishments and those are just from his first 20 months lol
@McBacoon The railway system has already gotten approval to go ahead for research by the UN, and South Korea is sending engineers and resources to study upgrading North Korea's system for the connection to South Korea: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/24/world/asia/north-south-korea-rail-un.html -- If you want to argue this will never happen, you need to at least explain why and preferably give some hardcore facts instead of just projection.
As for the joint Olympic bid, that's more meaningful than you make it out to be. Hosting Olympics costs a lot of money and takes a lot of organization. It also makes a lot of money in tourism. Just sitting down and making the plan means something, but also if they ever won (admittedly unlikely), that would be huge for working together and North Korea opening up.
On missile sites, blowing them up is permanent. Sure, they can rebuild or have other sites, but blowing up sites is still permanent. The reason North Korea had a rough winter btw, is because of the pressure Trump put on them. China leaned on them because of Trump.
On the PCA, you're just being ridiculous, like with the rest of my points. Make some real objections. The PCA was opposed by environmentalists at the time because it is not legally binding. It was an economic agreement that asked countries to promise to self-regulate to certain goals. It did nothing. It will only punish those who follow it, and it will benefit those who don't. (France follows and has riots.) This does not mean we need Mad Max. We can solve the problem in other ways. We are more likely to solve the problem because we aren't faking it in the PCA.
On border security, Trump did persuade many in the Caravans to turn back. They have been catching illegals at solid rates. Prototypes for the wall have been built. The military has worked with ICE to set up barricades. There has been progress, despite you not seeing it.
On the economy, the whole world is not doing great economically. France's unemployment is 9.3% and Spain's is 15.2%. Even Canada is at 5.6%. We could talk about the countries having serious problems, too, like Syria at 50%, Senegal at 48%, Yemen at 35%, Venezuela at 33%. Many African countries are around 20%. There has been world growth, but the USA's has been particularly good, especially given we were already economically strong.
As for minority groups, I don't know why you say they don't matter, but they do. Races tend to live in different areas and even have different cultures. So when the unemployment rate is lowered because a few people got jobs all around the country, that's different than when it goes lower because a city in despair finally gets jobs. Trump is bringing jobs to the neediest areas, which is why Blacks in particular are benefiting so much.
lmao
```The railway system has already gotten approval to go ahead for research by the UN, and South Korea is sending engineers and resources to study upgrading North Korea's system for the connection to South Korea``` So, the main problems with the railway are: sanctions, bad relations, NK promising to nuke everybody etc... I seriously doubt it will be built, because it also requires maintneance and u wont take that responsebility if you dont make any profit from it. What are the Nort-Koreans gona buy? Japanese body pillows and Korean vibrators? ```As for the joint Olympic bid, that's more meaningful than you make it out to be. Hosting Olympics costs a lot of money and takes a lot of organization. It also makes a lot of money in tourism. Just sitting down and making the plan means something, but also if they ever won (admittedly unlikely), that would be huge for working together and North Korea opening up.``` While I do agree that its more of a symbolical thing, I dont agree with the statement that it opens NK up. We have a perfect example of USSR for that matter. Many USSR sportsment (especially cold olympics like skiing) were Estonian. It didnt open up.
```On missile sites, blowing them up is permanent. Sure, they can rebuild or have other sites, but blowing up sites is still permanent.``` Nothing is permanent in this world. Blowing up a few sites means nothing. They did that before and built new ones. Although sites differ (which is another longer discussion). ```The reason North Korea had a rough winter btw, is because of the pressure Trump put on them. China leaned on them because of Trump.``` And no, Chinese export to NK hasnt lessened drastically. Ofcourse, it is now harder to export/import something with NK but that doesent mean its impossible. Chinese (and to some extent also Russians) use ships to export/import goods. From making oil tankers look like cargo ships to mid-sea fuel dumping (transfering oil from 1 tanker to another) they use all sorts of methods to get past the sanctions or outright cheat them.
fuck
my hand is tired
I will follow up with the second part
@Tyberius D Sure, some of it is point of view, but some of it comes down to facts as well.
On the GOP, what smart people were run out? Jeff Flake? And what do you mean by the populists can't do math?
Also, I want to be clear that I'm a left-leaning Centrist. I voted for Obama twice. I'm not on the Right at all. While I'm a nationalist because I believe in the nation-state, I stand against ethnonationalism and I believe in global trade deals, just the good kind.
On North Korea, I never said there was physical connection yet, but they are working towards that. Research, money, and resources are being put towards developing connecting the countries. That's a big deal. Also, North Korea has more tourists than you probably think. Most of them are good. Otto Warmbier was the exception, and Trump got him back, too, btw. I wouldn't be surprised if the three hostages were spies, either. We don't know what their real stories are, but I think you are being unfair to them.
The PCA was a horrible deal. Why do you think it wasn't? Like I said, the goals were completely non-legally binding. That means that if the USA were to commit and China doesn't, China would gain economic advantages and we would be punished for following it, while China isn't. That's as bad as it gets. And yes, the riots are due to the PCA, because the taxes were put on (especially gasoline) to get under the CO2 goals of the PCA. Not sure how you can say these aren't connected.
As to what you said at the end, 60 in the Senate rarely happens. It's common for a push against the President's party in the midterms. In fact, the Senate grew. Only the House went down in numbers, and by less than expected. It was actually a solid day for the Republicans.
@McBacoon Laughing only shows how insecure you are. I'll deal with your arguments later, but so far you have offered very little. Maybe stop laughing and concentrate a little more on convincing arguments.
dunno how I am supposed to make them more convincing, word them better? I might difficulties with that cuz english is not my first language
and I will laugh how much I like, and that has nothing to do with being insecure
2 capitalists debating
<:GWcentralWowDess:377110520819613696>
```It was an economic agreement that asked countries to promise to self-regulate to certain goals. It did nothing. It will only punish those who follow it, and it will benefit those who don't. (France follows and has riots.) ``` Atleast it is a stride towards something. I do not completely agree with it aswell, as I would also like it to be legally binding. But do you know how important it is for countries to have some sort of sights on what to improve. Like making 20% of electricity renewable... PCA benefitted so much that more European funding came to build more renewable electricity resources. As seen from Estonia, all of the renewable projects have european funding. Although I dont really understand by what you mean "punish those who follow it". The Yellow vest riots is France dont have much to do with PCA. The only connecting thing is that its a "green tax" that they are trying to raise, but even that is just a cover to balance the hole that was created by the rich tax. ```The military has worked with ICE to set up barricades. There has been progress, despite you not seeing it.``` I dont thing 200+ millions is worth it. Although there are some benefits of military helping, there isnt much that they can do except support (like intel and logistics).
```France's unemployment is 9.3% and Spain's is 15.2%. Even Canada is at 5.6%.``` While France is having some economic difficulties (along with S-europe) then Canada isnt doing that bad. 5.6 isnt that bad and from what I have seen, its decreasing. ```Syria at 50%, Senegal at 48%, Yemen at 35%, Venezuela at 33%.``` 3/4 are in some sort of armed conflict, and Venezuela is a self-created crisis. All of them have no affect to the world economy. Venezuela doesent even produce enough oil to shake the oil price. ```here has been world growth, but the USA's has been particularly good, especially given we were already economically strong.``` + Asia and some parts of Europe. Those are the economies that have actual affect on the world economy. And there are more nations coming as some are still recovering from 2008. ```Minority groups``` As for minority groups, I dont have much personal experience on that department as I live in a very homogenous society. But from my POV, I have no difference if I hire 20 black guys or 20 white guys to work in my factory as long as they meet the criteria. But... maybe thats a US thing... idk ```Trump is bringing jobs to the neediest areas``` How tho? I think its rather that the enterpreneurs and companies are bringing jobs....
@McBacoon About the railway, you said the main problems are sanctions, bad relations, and NK promising to nuke the world. The railway is predecated on denuclearization. It's unlikely the Koreas would be going forward with the railway as far as they have already if they didn't see a serious path towards denuclearization. Also, NK has already gotten UN approval to make the railway exempt from the sanctions. I argue that NK was striving to get nukes for security, but the best security is becoming getting rid of them and building up an interconnected economy with South Korea. Missiles are just making NK a target at this point.
NK is much more hidden than the USSR ever was. NK does allow tourists, but only in certain places. With as many tourists as the Olympics would bring, tourists would go all over the country. That's very different than the USSR situation.
Blowing up sites is permanent. Even if they blow them up and rebuild them, that still costs money. It does mean something. If you just shrug off these types of gestures as literally meaning nothing, than you are not a part of the serious discussion.
On China, you were mainly arguing against things I didn't say. Go back and read what I actually said, which is that Trump leaned on China which is what caused North Korea to have a tough winter. Of course China tries to cheat them, but we also catch some of this stuff, and we were really cracking down last year: https://www.dw.com/en/south-korea-confirms-it-has-seized-tanker-suspected-of-delivering-oil-to-north-korea/a-41972044
``` I argue that NK was striving to get nukes for security, but the best security is becoming getting rid of them and building up an interconnected economy with South Korea. Missiles are just making NK a target at this point.``` NK is a dynasty. Kim Jong-Un´s father started with the nuclear program and Kim is now fixated on the path to reach US mainland. Nukes provides security as you said, and they would be fools to give them up. NK saw what happened to Lybia, Iraq and recently Iran. As long as Kim is in power, they wont get rid of the nukes. I can bet my house on that. Missiles just add the capability to their guarantee. If you have a missile that reaches US mainland, then it has much more of an effect that a missile that cant do that. Also, NK version of "denuclearisation" is something different than what US has in mind. ```NK is much more hidden than the USSR ever was.``` In some ways, yes. But it wasnt so that you could also freely wander around as a tourist in USSR. It was also pretty controlled like in NK. ```Blowing up sites is permanent. Even if they blow them up and rebuild them, that still costs money. It does mean something.``` Wasnt the site that they blew up, the same one that they did an underground nuke experiment and collapsed? Wiki apparently backs me up. So, destroying an facility that doesent have much use anyway, doesent mean much more that just nice pics of "were improving, please lessen sanctions"
@McBacoon By signing the PCA with no legal commitment, countries are allowed to get the optics of working towards environmental goals without actually working towards them. The USA has not been in the PCA and yet has been doing just fine on lowering carbon emissions. The USA has actually led in reducing carbon emissions without forcing it like other countries (again, France) are trying to (not that the government does nothing).
You argue about going towards renewables. Did you know that solar panels actually INCREASE the carbon footprint in many areas? In fact, China has increased their carbon footprint because of their commitment to solar. Check this out: https://twitter.com/PeterZeihan/status/989868124525809664
And why do you assume renewables are the answer? Wind is highly variable and pretty crappy overall. Solar is okay right now, but there are better sources. Nuclear fission is great clean powerful energy. Nuclear fusion theoretically can give us near-infinite powerful energy if we can get the technology working, and fusion power plants don't have meltdowns.
On the border, that's fine if you don't think bringing the military to the border was worth it, but the argument was about whether or not Trump was securing the borders. He has worked towards doing just that. What the military was doing was running constatine wire, and that was a psychological act to PREVENT future illegal crossings. We're not just talking about preventing people crossing, we're talking about preventing drugs, slave trafficking, rapes, crimes, etc. Crime has risen in Mexico due to these caravans.
*constantine wire*
ever heard of wire cutters?
😄
On unemployment, sure, Canada isn't doing bad, but Trump is destroying Trudeau on trade deals and the USA's economy is doing much better than Canadas. The Feds have increased interest rates over and over to slow our economy down because it's growing so quickly.
You say the countries I mentioned, like Venezuela, have no impact on the world's economy. You say Venezuela doesn't even produce much oil. Well, they certainly used to. They aren't now and are now struggling mightily economically. That does have an impact on the world's economy. Syria has oil, too.
You talk about Asian countries recovering. Notice what you aren't talking about is the USA's economy, because you know our economy is strong. That isn't even debatable anymore. I remember when the MSM said Trump was going to tank the economy. That never happened.
About minorities, you're looking at it wrong. It's not about hiring 20 Black guys or 20 White guys. It's about are people in the inner cities of Detroit getting hired or not? Yes? Well, those are going to be a much higher population of Black people than the rural areas of North Dakota, for instance. And the Latino population has an issue with understanding English. So there is information to be gathered generally from looking at groups, although unemployment in general is most important. Simply put, though, Trump is not only helping our economy, he's growing it in a great way. Building manufacturing is another great way he has helped the economy. A manufacturing job is worth more than a lot of other jobs, because uneducated people can make a good living doing it, and that is a large population. Those people have few other places to get jobs if not for manufacturing.
You ask how Trump is bringing jobs to the neediest areas. Building manufacturing is a big way, because places like Detroit have been built on the auto industry, and then got destroyed by global trade deals that outsourced their jobs. Trump got out of bad trade deals like the TPP, NAFTA, PCA, etc., he's reworking them, and that's bringing jobs that were outsourced back.
```You argue about going towards renewables. Did you know that solar panels actually INCREASE the carbon footprint in many areas? In fact, China has increased their carbon footprint because of their commitment to solar.``` Ofcourse I think we should go towards renewables, as oil, coal will run out someday. And I also agree that solar panels shouldnt be installed everywhere. Places like California and mid-east are pretty nice. I have also seen alot of them in mediterrean countries, where there is alot of sun. Wind... its better than nothing. If I have to shut my coal plant to 50% then even that is progress. Wind is actually doing pretty good.. Denmark is a pretty big user of wind. In Estonia (YES, AGAIN WITH THAT) there is a plan to build a big wind park in the middle of the sea, as there are pretty good wind speeds in there. That park alone could power half the country. We produce 80% of electricity from shale oil, but if u could tune that down a bit... would be much better. Im also a big supporter of nuclear power and I think its the way of the future.
@McBacoon NK doesn't have the ability to strike the USA. The USA can choose to attack NK at any point without any major threat of NK hitting the USA at this point. We also have missile defense systems even if they could hit us. The USA is also not the only threat to Kim Jong-un, and the longer he fails to grow North Korea the more likely someone kills him from the inside. And you also bring up the denuclearization meme, but that's BS. They know what we mean and we know what they mean. They are playing games when they pretend to not know what we mean by denuclearization, and the Trump Administration has been very careful about that. That's why they blocked the railway research because they didn't want things advancing too quickly.
On NK blowing up their facility, they blew up multiple facilities.
*obviously a man with no specific military knowldege* not as an insult tho...
@McBacoon About constatine wire, did you miss my point about the psychological impact.
```NK doesn't have the ability to strike the USA.``` They are developing it, they possibly already have a missile that can hit Alaska. And USA wil NEVER attack NK. Because of the same "missiles that are making it a target at this point" You need a platform to deliver these missiles with. They have a bunch of short-range and medium-range missiles. Thats already enough to nuke Japan (lmao Japs getting it again) and South Korea. And USA wants to hear none of that. So... it wont nuke NK. The missile defence system you have is pure ***BS***. They could hit you perfectly fine. USA is in every aspect a threat to Kim. US has soldiers in SK, Japan. Their fleets do patrolls near their waters, their planes fly over Pyeongyang (I think it was this year a B-1 with escorts flew over them). And you are telling me USA is no way a threat to Kim? Now, remove nukes from that.. and you get a possible Korean War 2.0 NK understand that under denuclearization all US troops would also withdraw (history has shown its not a great idea) from SK and possibly Japan.
@McBacoon You are really reaching now. Running out of fossil fuels is not a serious problem to be considered right now. And the closer we get, the higher prices will go, and the more the market will automatically gear towards other sources of energy like solar, wind, tidal, nuclear, bio, etc. You talk about solar being good in some areas. Yes, it is, but forcing it down our throats is the wrong answer. Let the market dictate. On wind, it's better than nothing, but we're not talking about wind or nothing. We're talking about fossil fuels + wind + solar + every other type of energy or FORCING wind and solar and NOT HAVING fossil fuels.
nobody is forcing it
who is?
is there an goverment official with an M4 behind ur door?
***"gimme dat wind power boii"***
@McBacoon And now you are resorting to attacking me personally as an ad hominem. I think it's time for me to opt-out. You are not discussing in good faith.