GG @ashnaa, you just advanced to level 7!

And to Komrade, nobody is forcing the mother to keep the child?

You're saying they shouldn't get an abortion

So, they'd then need to keep the child or put them up for adoption or a foster home. All of which end poorly

No, because ending a life because it might harm your economic status is immoral to my view

GG @Billcat, you just advanced to level 10!

Uhm, no? That doesn't really make much sense.

https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/04/the-dark-sad-side-of-domestic-adoption/275370/

billcat, imagine you are pregnant, and you giving birth can mess up your life and ruin your dreams. would you still abort

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/mfr/4919087.0016.102/--culture-of-poverty-and-adoption-adoptive-parent-views?rgn=main;view=fulltext

For one, foster care has literally nothing to do with giving a baby up. Foster care only steps in when CPS has ruled a mother is unfit in caring for the child

https://prospect.org/article/adoption-not-solution-poor-children

the adoption and foster system are currently messed up. if you were trying to get an abortion in the first place, you probably wouldn't be able to provide a safe and loving home to your child.

So the whole "foster care" argument is incredibly nonsensical, as it coninflates two issues.

and yeah anyways foster and adoption are both NOT alternatives to abortion

https://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/science-backs-foster-care-sucks-article-1.2833834

adoption takes away your role in the baby's life AFTER it is born. not your role in it before it is born, AND during child birth

So, what is your alternative to aborting the baby prior to it being born @Billcat

And second off, that's not true at all, in regards to adoption. Private adoption waiting lists are in the tens of thousands long and families wait for years, with families being extensively examined in order for fitness

Show a source

Sure, one second

https://www.today.com/parents/it-takes-more-love-what-happens-when-adoption-fails-918076

https://nypost.com/2017/06/17/this-woman-stole-children-from-the-poor-to-give-to-the-rich/

https://www.americanadoptions.com/pregnant/adoption_stats

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/12/adoption-happily-ever-after-myth/418230/

https://www.americanadoptions.com/pregnant/waiting_adoptive_families

"***It is difficult to find reliable statistics to answer this question. Some sources estimate that there are about 2 million couples currently waiting to adopt in the United States — which means there are as many as 36 waiting families for every one child who is placed for adoption. ***"

Is a child struggling justification for killing them?

That is by an adoption agency of course they'll say that

And, it's not murder if they're not alive

So I give you a source, and you say "no i don't believe it"

Yes, because nobody has ever used that phrase to justify some of the worst atrocities in human histories

I'm saying your source is the people profiting off the issue

Can't be murder if they're not a person, right?

they arent alive

I didn't say that, I said they're not alive

uh yeah that's the definition of murder

If they're not alive you can not take their life

And you're telling me that the person writing their left leaning opinion piece isn't profiting, Komrade?

its not killing it if its not alive

Ok, so what determines life then?

the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.