@Bard that's how I felt about it.

I mean there's a lot of talk here about killing people that have sex with children, one of the books it was based on clearly states that Koresh fucked 12 year old girls. In my mind he was no hero, but everyone under him didn't deserve to go out like that obviously. The main contention is the staggering evil of our government at every possible level.

@Bard that's the thing, that report came out after the fact, not before. So I question the validity of it at all. The government wanted to smear him to make a win for themselves. I mean look at his home video interactions
He looks and talks like a normal family man. Let's not forget this Waco documentary came out on what? Netflix? That's all I need to know

I agree though with the hero bit, but normal patriotic citizens getting Merced by their own government is a just cause to be against

I'd recommend Derrick broze as a good source of this.

That's just the account of David Tibideau or however you spell it, one of the survivors, not the press at the time

Also Bill cooper wrote extensively and researched this when it happened in the 90s.

@Bard whomst they pressured and threated further.

I don't think he was abusing them like the media said, I think he was charismatic enough to convince them that it was an okay thing to do

That's a big IF though.

No true accout. Of him doing it but from one man.

I mean the dude had the love of his life gassed and barbecued and gave an account, continuously saying there were no plans of mass suicide

If that happened it would have spread through the compound as a rumor easily just like (and I'm not equating the two) jim Jones.

The man didn't want to die. He was the original Red flag victim.

Let's not forget that

I agree, Koresh and everyone inside did not deserve to die.

Just playing devils advocate here

They did not.

@Bard I'm glad you are though.

Your one of the more sensible minded to have a convo about this subject with either way. Plus disagreement is good. Or else it devolves into cocksuckery

Like it's so easy to look at waco as this conspiracy to shoot first, then burn all the evidence. The older I get and the more I read into it just seems like total, arrogant, tyrannical incompetence

They pump the gas in, gas lights up, they don't want bad press, so they pretend it was a mass suicide

Sometimes incompetence, alot of the time it is social engineering and malevolence

Wrong meme.

Lol

Yeah seemed like a bit of an oxymoron there

@nubbits libertarian does not necessarily mean non violent.

Well libertarian doesn't mean anything now and days anyways

No that's true but I would generally require good justification for the violence to label it as such

I've seen commies argue that they are libertarian

Yeah look like if the commies do their own thing that's alright with me

And there are also a lot of state encouraged monopolies, corrupt enterprises etc. where I wouldn't mind seeing them off

But generally speaking commies pretty crazy

The way I look at is the government always wants to "win", they fear the public and they have to demonize people by saying they're crazy cultists like Jim Jones to simplify it to the majority of the American public. They control the press, tamper with evidence, and use arrogant stupid cruel tactics to get what the want. The deaths of 25 babies is and 60 others was not a "win" for the feds. If that was their method of "winning the PR war with the American public", it just defies belief. History doesn't look fondly on anyone involved that day. It was not in the best interest of the "powers that be" to do that, or else we wouldn't be using to this very day as a martyrdom and rally cry for liberty and individualism.

I wouldnt either.

Dave is getting tired of our degenerate behavior

Sorry Dave, your soulless coward HRT buddy Lon deserves the rope

I don't mean to blow up about all this shit, I am open to be convinced of any number of perspectives that you all may share using facts that I myself can read, assess honestly and look at directly. Teach me and convince me, because there are fewer and fewer things that I can be certain of these days when the whole world lies to you.