Message from @Crow
Discord ID: 489855407393865729
being smart requires a lot of energy, which is why most animals aren't, especially not herbivores who can neither afford nor need that extra problem-solving
but all mammals have the same basic architecture, in that they *have* a preforntal cortex
birds don't, yet some CAN do high level stuff
there is another explanation: our understanding of brains has a potential flaw
Some sea slugs can do some pretty advanced stuff for sea slugs.
Brains the more complex they are require more energy to run
I do know that the behaviour you see in crows is learned from watching others where as a slug will teach it's self. I think it is more related to evolution of the specific species than architecture.
you can do some tests though, a lobotomy for example damages/destroys the prefrontal cortex, in rats as well as humans
while there's obviously more to it (prefrontal cortex sending back and forth with older parts of the brain while e.g. handling memories) the basic gist of it is that if you remove prefrontal cortex, you get a "drooling zombie" incapable of overruling baser instincts, incapable of advanced problem-solving, etc.
architecture is evolved
and birds and mammals are groups of species so far apart entire regions of the brain have had the time to evolve
So they aren't still working on the reptile brain?
so their not.
the reptile brain doesn't have a prefrontal cortex, that part does not exist
Yeah I knew that. But I didn't know birds had evolved past that.
and we are entirely sure the prefrontal cortex does not have sub components that we might find replicated in other advance problem solving species?
obviously we will find components that allow advanced problem solving
in birds
since some are demonstrably capable of such problem solving, the part must be there, wherever it is
but it's NOT the prefrontal cortex, because they haven't evolved that, and we split from birds before it existed
it's like comparing bats and insects, both fly but by completely different means, they evolved flight in parallel
A bet it works almost exactly the same. Evolutionary convergence. Like the squid eye and the human eye.
Yeah, like is said, I don't think it's to do with the architecture of the bird brain coz we'd see more smart birds like yes see many smart mammals. Something special about Corvids.
so you're saying it's the architecture of corvid brains rather than their entire group?
feels a bit like saying the architecture in mammals isn't special, but the architecture in the monkey/ape group is special
since a lot of monkeys are way smarter than the vast majority of mammals, but there are stupid monkeys just like there are stupid corvids
(bluejays for example aren't nearly as clever as crows or ravens)
They don't need to be. they're pretty 😉
Human and Chimps are working pretty much on the same hardware. I don't see anything special between what they look like just how it's use. It's the software that's different.
😉
same style of hardware I'll agree, but one's a gaming PC while the other is a budget office computer
Could have a bunch of rocks rattling around up there, it doesn't matter.
Yeah. Their both running Coffee Lake but ones an i3 and the other an i7
maybe not. scrap that i think.
it's close enough I'd say
parrots are also up there
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1626540/
an interesting read, but TL;DR
```css
>It is now known that this nomenclature is based on a fallacy; large parts of the avian forebrain are derived, not from the striatum, but from the pallium (figure 1b). Interestingly, the mammalian neocortex is also derived from the pallium (Jarvis & Consortium 2005). This places the avian forebrain into a new light, where bird behaviour may now be explained as an adaptation to solving socio-ecological problems similar to mammals, possessing hardware that is different to mammals, albeit evolved from the same structure. Pepperberg (1999) provides a useful computer analogy when comparing mammalian and avian brains; mammalian brains are like IBM-PCs, whereas avian brains are like Apple Macintoshes; the wiring and processing are different, but the resulting output (i.e. behaviour) is similar.
```
Nice how Pepperberg is using computer comparison as well
and in response to tests:
```css
> The corvid outperforms the parrot, which outperforms the quail, which outperforms the chicken (Gossette et al. 1966)
```
corvids may be my favorate birb but you seem to know a lot about them @Crow
yes, I relate to them on a deep, transcendent metaphysical and spiritual level
I have so, so much in common