@Beemann I would agree with that assertion. It's just the best I could phrase it here. Discord has a character limit and I'm typing on my phone, not to mention I haven't seriously looked into stuff in a long time so am out of touch in many ways simply due to apathy. It was only gamergate which roused my attention again.

I dont know if you realize it but the SJW's are openly against biology an naturalism itself.

Actually maxkolbe the things you point out got nothing to do with a triumph of faith

we all unironically just wanted to play our videogames. @MetGreDKo

its rather that most of these people end up highly educated and highly educated people tend to have fewer kids.

@MetGreDKo fair enough
I think the primary issue is that people are ripping out structures that may have been too rigid without replacing the portions of those structures that were keeping things going

And the secularism point only works when you are talking about the extreme divide between left and right. But again that doesnt have anything to do with religion winning something.

counter from max would be: higher education is controlled by the Atheist movement

communal involvement is down, young people are not bothering with relationships/families, marriages more and more frequently break down

that is true

we're entering an age where people do not pay attention to their responsibilities as citizens, as family members, as community members

how do you separate indoctrination and education? is indoctrination not subjective?

no

that would a post modernist approach to things

the idea behind indoctrination is that you're basically teaching with the purpose of giving someone a particular partisan outlook

but can you not teach what you believe is true, and not also indoctrinate?

would you teach something you do not believe is true?

so an education would teach you about, say, the pros and cons of 2nukes
indoctrination would be to teach that it was only good, or only bad

your personal convictions as a teacher shouldn't really stand in the way of a student being properly informed

Kids need to read books

like even if you dont necessarily agree that keeping the Russians out of Japan is "good enough" to be partial justification for the H-Bomb being deployed, it's still relevant info

what happens when "facts" differ between 2 sets of people? facts don't have pro's or con's

you go with what can be confirmed

Indoctrination is not teaching, it is ramming a particular mindset into someone.

what it is

Is teaching people what to think, instead of teaching them how to think.

The future dystopia is not that books are banned but that they are restricted from the common person and the common person must hear the interpretation from some higher figure,

I had a report that dealt with the Catholic Church during WWII. One of the claims was that they purposely smuggled Nazis to South America. I didnt find sufficient evidence to comfortably conclude that this was the case in the amount of time I had, so I left it out
Contrary to what some people in here might think, my report on the Pope was actually relatively neutral

A-bombs were dropped on Japan. Hydrogen bombs were not. Just a note

In a very black/white dichotomy it would look like this:
-Person A was taught what to think
-Person B was taught how to think

Both people get confronted with new evidence for something that changes things.
Person A would become impossible to adjust to this
Person B would be able to reason and take on board this new information

@Beemann If ripping structured apart without replacing what needed to replace is the issue then I'd put the blame on the pace of our advancement over the past 200 years. Previously advancement was slow which meant it would take a while before having a truly noticeable impact on the average person's day to day or institutions in general. Society had time to adapt to those changes because of it, making small tweaks here and there. As advancement occurred more rapidly however that meant institutions were more quickly put in a place where they could be questioned and may even be obsolete. There wasn't an adequate amount of time though to really see how those advancements would impact a society so you couldn't really build appropriate replacements for what needed to say. That isn't to mention an underlying question of how you can tailor or manipulate a society into adopting other structures if say, the traditional family, was removed. It isn't something easily done particularly in an information age where literacy and education are universal.

Most people dont function like this mind you, hence its a very black/white dichotomy.

how often do anyone who "teaches" someone else actually teach how to think, rather than what to think?

@Grenade123 Indeed, I just wanted to play good games with reliable sources for information - though I never found any games journalism to be such.

no one did

@MetGreDKo That's been my conclusion yes, and it was Hayek's conclusion as well in '88

hence the side of gamergate complaining about ethics in game journalism

not all the effects of the insititution you're questioning are readily apparent, and so change ought to happen slowly wrt social structures

and then they went and validated everyone's criticism

@Grenade123 Any half-decent teacher teaches kids how to think

Especially with the game journopros list