*I am dissapoint*.

I was challenging the notion that ST is socialist, since private property, personal possessions, wages etc exist even despite society being "post scarcity"

I was talking about Ferengi

GPL

best mcguffin

@MachoHamRandySandwich Sorry, but what you said was interesting

The difference is that with production costs basically hitting rock bottom people aren't worried about subsisting or accumulating material goods, except where scarcity is still present (excepting the Ferengi)

Picard explains it in the episode where they find the capsule with the 22nd Century frozen people as:

The economics of the future are somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the twenty-fourth century.

The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves...and the rest of humanity.

We need the unions to lobby for a ban on 3D printing and other replicator technologies

I wish future food making was like this https://youtu.be/w2v_lpwjKUw?t=141

They say that and then reference credits and currency repeatedly elsewhere

That's the "issue"

I dont recall any mentions of currency except by the Ferengi, if there were any I would presume DS9 would clarify the most

I think Gene Roddenberry was trying to convey a world where currency is no longer a thing, and that everyone has all their needs met by replicators and other stuff, and that social evolution has led to a ppoint where people give of their services for the sake of doing what it is they love

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Federation_credit
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Money

Right, a lot of those (if not all) were after Gene Rodenberry died I believe

There's TOS ones in there

There are indeed, I somehow missed those lol

Well, it's clear to me that was what he was trying to get at, only the most thorough and forward planning creator would have everything right in the offset

Like it mentions that Roddenberry emphatically pushed a no money rule, and yet
"Later that same year, Uhura was offered a tribble for ten credits by a bartender on Deep Space Station K-7, before receiving one gratis from Cyrano Jones. (TOS: "The Trouble with Tribbles")"

Yeah, I think thats probably just how his vision of what the universe would have been like changing over time

Since there are refences explicitly pointing out no currency, whereas these are in flavour text or metaphor moments

I guess I think in Gene Roddenberry's head at least that the Future was socialist

of Humanity at least

And then most of Star Trek was post-Roddenberry

Tbh I think it's just the result of multiple battling writers

This is the best I find that explains it

Jake said, "I'm Human, I don't have any money." Nog commented, "It's not my fault that your species decided to abandon currency-based economics in favor of some philosophy of self-enhancement." Jake answered, "Hey, watch it. There's nothing wrong with our philosophy. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity." Nog then replied, "What does that mean?" Jake responded, "It means... It means we don't need money!" Nog quickly pointed out, however, that Jake wouldn't be able to bid or borrow.

This is what I mean about battling writers though

>federation makes a bid on something
>the federation can't bid on things lol, #nomoney

I think the difference is between the individual and the Federation

remember the Federation has property rights

The individual has no money, but the Federation has assets of Gold and Latinum with which to trade diplomatically

Like in the episode where Riker has to negotiate for the rights to a supposedly stable wormhole

Again, there's reference to personal debt, personal property, personal possessions

But if you acquired a possession through socialist means then that can still be your own

>acquired a possession through socialist means
Que
How does a man own a vineyard "through socialist means"?

"This portion of land is what is allotted to you, do with it what you want"

>we're allotting land on *Earth* to people, because socialism