I said the borders of Africa and the Middle East were arbitrary.

Sorry for the misattribution

Okay

Too many other national borders in the world are also arbitrary, actually.

Devpav, regarding Obama and weakening the US, I disagree. He saw value in collaboration. If we make the whole world economic pie bigger and the US's share goes down but rises in absolute terms, that's still more for the US.

The British and the French certainly set the borders of the middle east after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, but they were subject to the realpolitik of the time. Plenty of warlords and emirs who had to be appeased in order for the to pull their forces out.

That is literally just race-to-the-bottom logic.

True, Atkins. But that's still the fruits of colonialism.

However, if the system was working in favor of the US, why undermine it?

But devpav, it's logic that is subscribed to in both left and right circles.

Atkins, I'd say the same thing to Trump, now.

The Breton Woods world benefits the US. Why tear it down?

Only the globalist circles in the left and right.

Yes, devpav.

The Breton Woods world doesn't exist anymore.

That's my point.

There is no Soviet Union.

And the globalists' interests are not our interests.

By the way, anyone want to tell me which president approved China's ascension into the WTO? This was when things really got bad for the US re: trade deficits. Any takers?

Personally I think that NATO should exist, and I believe Trump does as well. However the Europeans must spend 2% of their GDP on actual military power.

It was not Obama

Wasn't even Clinton

W.

Thank you

Is anyone here defending W?

Nope.

Pretty hollow victory then.

I'm just pointing out that Obama wasn't the root of all evil

Obama was the root of Obama's evil.

But he wasn't all that different from Bush II, Bush I, or Reagan

Obama doesn't deserve this vigorous defense. He was completely awful from a foreign policy standpoint. Absolutely no positives whatsoever.

In regards to trade

Bush II was awful for foreign policy too

I know. Trump represents a sea change in the politics of US trade.

And no one is defending him. You are defending Obama. I can't see why.

I am not defending Obama per se. I just took umbrage at the use of the term treason a while back so i felt it necessary to make it clear that Obama was no better or worse than his predecessors when it comes to our current deficit or geopolitical situation.

Obama and W were both loyal to the globalist elites instead of the ordinary Americans who elected them.

Thank you

That's all I wanted to be recognised

Okay, so how do we stop money flowing to the Gulf state men who redirect it to terrorists who kill us?

As Atkins said that was all rather pointless since nobody is defending W.