They need someone to tell them how to live.

And they would only last while someone doesn't do a better job at providing the same service they do more cheaply

Id actually like to see that. But we already have silicone valley almost running the country

So maybe we will lol

I gotta go back to work. Good talk tho.

I don't think people don't want to be free, but they will cling to other things to tell them how to live - culture, religion, community

When we see a collapse in the entire social and political structure of our society, we might see it.

Safety nets remove the personal responsibility people have in helping those in need within their own community

I didn't say people don't want to be free. They can't handle it because they don't know how to be.

Most people are too comfortable living within the safety nets provided for them.

Safety nets are regulations tho

Yeah, they abdicate responsibility because they know someone will help them

Which isn't a good thing

Ok im done for real now. Back to work. Good talk

It's not for nothing that people against welfare are the ones doing the most charity

We can pick this up some other time.

No it's not. Freedom has to come with responsibility. Otherwise, you are giving someone else that responsibility over you. That person with the responsibility than makes the rules.

Sure thing bro, good work

Okay, see ya! ^-^

Exactly, the removal of personal responsibility does much more harm than good, even if in practice you're handing people stuff to keep themselves alive

This is what is keeping people in safety nets, and what is keeping us out of anarchy and even decentralization. If we all carried our own responsibilities over ourselves, we would be able to make easier transitions, but most within the confines of these safety nets are to used to giving those responsibilities up for more convenience.

Oh yeah, they cannot fathom living bearing responsibility

Those who depend on safety nets would be the ones who would need the most "rehab"

That would be a lot of people in rehab o.o lol

Oh yeah

At least a generation's worth of rehab

lol right?

Tell people to go out, hunt their own food, make their own bows, and they will bitch and moan and call it unfair. But they will turn around and say food is a human right.

Guess what, if you are not willing to go get it yourself, then you are the only one to blame for not getting fed. No one owes you their labor because some hoe birthed you and nature demands you stay fed.

Isn't the way to discern true rights to ask what you still have when stripped of everything?

Assigning rights too foolhardily restricts freedoms, liberty ought to be the keystone that everything fits around.

Precisely! This is why advocating for any new rights (ie: these minority rights on the left that are constantly being shoved down our throats) is foolish.

I think there is an honest question surrounding healthcare, although this is kinda changing topic.

I wonder is it reasonable to assign a right to healthcare

is it a right in itself or is it an extension of your right to preservation of life.

If you apply the previous maxim, you cannot surely say when you are stripped bare of all privileges that you are owed a right to be treated medically, you are the arbiter of your own ends, and you should be responsible for your own medical care.

I would say it would be an extension of your right to preservation of life. Furthermore, I don't think any medical healthcare professional should be entirely obligated to do so. It is your responsibility, as you said for your own medical care.

Well it follows that you have a right to preserve your own life and that arise in rights of self defence etc. So I would have to argue that there exists no right to receive medical treatment.

Since the onus is on you to resolve that yourself.

The question interests me particularly since I live in the UK where we do have a right to medical treatment.

Oh right