Youlls need proof that loli leads to child abuse. I had someone tell me once that people with child predator history had a good chance of having loli/shota but i never got a citation

Okay? I don't believe that I need that proof. I've already explained that, even without directly physically harming people, the proliferation of the material harms both the person producing it and the person supplying it.

Thats in the case of actual porn. Why dont you need proof?

Look, the desire to have sex with prepubescent children is disordered, we agree on this, right?

Disordered in what sense? What order is it disrupting?

People commonly have desires that could not be acted upon legally, but it doesn't inherently cause disorder just to have the desire.

Thats why we need a study into it. See how many sex offenders have that stuff in their hard drive

There's actually an interesting article which suggests pedophilic consumers of virtual child porn are less likely to make physical contact: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RLDqjHJH0q_a6Mg_nFS0jzAT6uX80IWH/view?usp=drivesdk

Had to download the PDF because Google wouldn't let me link it.

There may need to be more research though. This was just from a preliminary search on how virtual child porn is used to groom children. I was trying to find evidence in favor of making the material illegal.

there is alot of problems with the few studies that are around with not having a large enough sample size.

we do have things like people who were assaulted when they were younger are also likely to also minors and that lgbt ppl make up a good amount of offenders despite being 2% of the population.

I don't consider loli, child porn because it's not actual children, it's a cartoon and so it doesn't have an actual age, there are tons of anime that have characters that look young but are actually centuries old in the anime.

you can't really give them an age other than what the creator says they are

its complicated. definetly degenerate tho

the opposite is also true, Sailor Moon looks like a high school student but is actually 12, I agree it's degenerate but that's not a good enough reason to ban it

I think the issue wouldn't be that it's actual children, just that loli porn could be used by pedophiles to groom children or that people viewing it could develop a paraphilic disorder in desiring an appearance only present in children.

well child grooming is already illegal, along with distributing porn to minors

I don't think it should be classified as child porn which makes it illegal to just posses it

we need data. for now though just dont make loli shota socially acceptable. we might get studies now that its an issue

it's not socially acceptable, that's why it's degenerate, just like furries, but they're still allowed to exist

I don't think it should be banned, but it shouldn't be, for a lack of better wording, mainstream.

it's not mainstream, furries are just really active on the internet which is why it looks like they're everywhere

and loli is looked down upon and banned on most sites

How can you say furries aren't mainstream when Zootopia grosses millions of dollars? If you're talking about furry porn specifically, then simply saying "furries" isn't accurate.

furries as people over 18, zootopia is a childrens movie, and just because you like it doesn't make you a furry

furry is a person who likes anthropomorphic art, stories, and the furry community. It's like what makes someone a weaboo, or an otaku.

it's more than just watching Naruto or Bleach on TV

It's a terrible word to use for a fandom, really. "Furry" can denote a vast number of things without being clear as to what people specifically mean, and then you get a whole barrage of connotations based on what people percieve.

My pet cat is furry. I can't think of a way for weaboo to apply in a similarly broad fashion.

zootopia was a childrens movie lol

Yes

basically you're a furry if you call yourself a furry, but the furry I'm referring to are the fursuiters and people who ear ears, tails, collars, and other stuff like that.

the cringy people you tend to see in the real world and online

Yes, the subculture deviates from the mainstream the more its members take the culture upon themselves as a lifestyle.

yes, when people say furry they're talking about the subculture

yea, alot of kids loved zootopia, most of the sales were families, you cant say entire families are furries lol

Right, but it was said that furries were degenerate just like loli and shota, and I just don't think a film with loli and shota characters would be quite so popular among family and youth, which I why I was confused by spypenguins use of the term furry alongside loli and shota. I thought he was talking about characters, not loli and shota subcultures.

i think he meant that furries have a very disturbing side to them like loli and shota, like a sub culture to a sub culture

Dont know if I would compare those two tbh. Furries have disturbing side to them, i agree here, but that is only side. For loli/shota it isnt only side when whole community is concentrated around disturbing content

there is the discord fiasco, where servers that had loli shota also had underage dating

but again, wed need to find out how related this stuff is. is it like with furries where other furries KNOW other furries do fucked up shit? do loli and shota people know other loli shota lovers do fucked up shit?

cause most of the degenerate furry stories come from other furries. REEEE DEBATE TIMER