Victims.

and a small group of leaders used their citizens as the weapons and not by the citizen's choice mind you

victims is a good word

@JadenFrostwolf lol exactly

victims of altruism

they did not choose to be there

no, that's not what he meant and you know it

you definition of Altruism is really warped dude

Victims of the leaders of a bunch of governments that wouldn't just talk things out and decided to make central Europe into a big meat grinder and toss their young men into it before coming to reason.

I know, he meant that there was no reason for them to be there, just like how there's no reason for anything. There's no reason why we should have rights, we just do, right?

There are reasons. But past our atmosphere, they're inconsequential.

the reasons why communism fails are inconsequential too, right?

Literally everything past our planet.

but we aren't talking about things past our planet, we are talking about human beings being sacrificed here.

weo don't just have rights, rights have come about through science and experience, not to mention out of baser instincts lol

you mean through reason?

not necessarrily

I'm my own brand of nihilism, I guess. I just don't let it debilitate my own self-importance.

And that of the importance that stops at the end of our atmosphere.

whatever you say dude, I hope that keeps you going.

the main debate was the definition of Altruism, at least where I came in and it's gone from there

It does.

why do you sound like you are trying to convert peopel to your thought process

It puts my life into perspective, and I find local comfort in it.

oh

Again, this is all over my head, and I need to go to work soon.

I'm just sharing my thought process

Yeah, that was a tangent

you are trying to convert people to it, is what that is lol

but again, ultimately I guess it's all a matter of opinion

"Sharing" and "converting" are two different things. You even questioned why we didn't conform to your thought processes.

As if your rationale is without the possibility of human flaw.

oh? he must have done that before I got here then lol

I'm not trying to convert you. If you choose to accept Objectivism of your own free will and rationale, more power to you. If not, you are free to continue as you are.

"Its not just my opinion, I am giving my rationale and you are rejecting it."

OH I was there for that, yeah, you are trying to convert people

ok maybe I got a bit annoyed 🙃

Objectivity and humans don't always mesh together 100%, 100% of the time.

It's something that happens.

that's not something someone says when they are annoyed, that's what someone says when their conversion tactics aren't working and they are loosing the argument to try and convert someone

At this point, drilling that in does little except exacerbate the situation.