I disagree with Marx, but that doesn't mean I discount everything he wrote

i am bringing it up as something negative about him, not as something to disvalue his writings

an angel in the Abrahamic sense would not be something I would give unchecked power to

GG @JaskaElide, you just advanced to level 2!

that said i disagree with his writings

that's not an argument

The quote is marred with religion

it is not

and i wasn't trying to make an argument

by angels they mean a higher ideal ruler

another iteration of the phrase is "if men were angels"

the use of angel in the quote reveals the uselessness of the quote

people are fallen, man is a fallen race

because everyones ideal of a good person is different

there is no perfect utopia

i consider the phrase to imply that controls on governments are necessary

we will never have an angel to make an absolute monarch of

which is not an untrue statement

all utopian ideals are idiocy, or a smokescreen for people who are playing the game of power

that said, there would be controls of governments in one way or another in the vast majority of cases

no?

Oh my god

utopia doesn't necessarily relate to the idea of perfect government

look at what utopia translates to, or the actual book "utopia"

a utopian quality is a perfect or near perfect state of affairs in any given sphere

it was a thought experiment

the origins of utopia may differ

but that does not change how utopia is colloquially used

just because you believe the system of government can never be perfected doesn't mean all utopian ideas are dumb

Yes

and also

anyone who speaks of such things in my view is masking something

Utopias are dumb

Hi

perfect merely relates to the maximum potential of good in relation to a subject

so technically speaking anything can be utopian

are you referring to something like the Forms?

if you consider utopia to mean perfect and not flawless that is

the government is corrupted.

periodt.

Define utopia dude