so with no local industry (cuz they moved), i think that way Trump is either gonna get a better deal for america, or force a local industry to be created

it was cheaper to make, meaning they can sell for less, meaning more people buy. meaning they make more profit. that is a net benefit for everyone involved. Because if we are importing that good, it means moved from making that product, to consuming it to make a different product.

so by that being made cheaper elsewhere, those industries that use it, can product their stuff for cheaper, meaning they get more profit with cheaper product, meaning they can expand, and we get more jobs

but they expand, in those countries

we don't get more pleb jobs, because those are done in those pleb nations

so, we have two people, 1 has a pleb job and can feed their family. the other doesn't have a job. the solution tariffs offer is to basically cut persons 1 pay in half, and give it to person 2. so now person 1 can't afford to keep his family afloat. so now he needs a second job, and person 2 still doesn't make enough to live, so he might as well not have a job.

because the actual value of these products does not change, just how much of your currency it takes to buy it.

so your currency is now worth less, because you can get less with it

yeah but before those tarifs, there were 0 pleb jobs, so neither got to work

in this scenario

okay, so they both still don't make enough to live.

rather than figure out how to make them worth of more than a pleb job.

i.e. get them into the service industry, because that is what America sells more of now.

less products, more services

thats assuming they're capable of more than a pleb job

well now you have to fight automation

but this discussion is basically about what one prioritizes

If you want better prices, and little trouble, no tariffs
If you want more jobs, and hassle, add tariffs

there is no forcing there to be more jobs that can support people enough to make a living

what is the point of making a 2 jobs, when you need both jobs worked by the same person for that person to live.

no, but if they don't get jobs, they'll become a drain on other people through welfare, and take their standard of living away too

they are still a drain!

you made more jobs, but added no value. so you took that value from somewhere else in the economy

you took part of someones job, and made it someone elses job

and if its pleb jobs, which barely pay to support the works in those jobs, you are just taking the value from other pleb jobs

so a person that could support their family working 1 pleb job. now needs to work 2 pleb jobs.

but there is no second pleb job, because person 2 took it.

so now you have 2 drains on society, instead of 1

2 smaller ones though

the end result is the same

you didn't fix anything!

hah.. Abe is saying russia and japan will face off in the football world cup

you just shuffled things around, and made two people miserable instead of 1!

i know, thats what i've said in the beginning, a trade war is about damaging the other

and you get damaged yourself

the end goal is that you damage the other nation MORE

i'm right there with you on no tariffs

there is no winning in a trade war

i agree

"yay! i poked two holes in your ship, and you only poked one in mine! we will both sink but at least you sink faster!"

"And then, since i sunk you first! there is no one around to help me and my people once i sink!"

well in the long run you can demand you use their ships parts, to save yourself and you help them build a raft