Message from @pratel

Discord ID: 474656233497034782


2018-08-02 19:07:47 UTC  

the line from NYT and herself was that she made these tweets in a trolling fashion (against people who were harassing her) and that she didn't mean it

2018-08-02 19:08:06 UTC  

believable / not believable?

2018-08-02 19:08:07 UTC  

Yeah, that's what I get from it too.

2018-08-02 19:08:34 UTC  

i agree that context matters, but when its someone the left doesnt like, context doesnt always apply. seems like a bit of a double standard

2018-08-02 19:09:49 UTC  

But as someone who holds the principle that context is important, do you think that sacrificing your principles to get a desired effect is good?

2018-08-02 19:09:57 UTC  

poor acosta

2018-08-02 19:10:41 UTC  

I see it as witting hypocrisy.

2018-08-02 19:11:02 UTC  

generally i would say no, one should avoid sacrificing their principles unless the circumstances are extreme

2018-08-02 19:11:10 UTC  

this i wouldnt count as extreme

2018-08-02 19:11:42 UTC  

I mean, there are plenty of right-leaning individuals willing to resort to Alinksy tactics.

2018-08-02 19:12:03 UTC  

I'm sort of okay with that, especially since they're people I don't associate myself with

2018-08-02 19:12:12 UTC  

link to alinsky explanation? not familiar

2018-08-02 19:12:13 UTC  

Alinsky isn't a bogeyman

2018-08-02 19:13:08 UTC  

Saul Alinsky?

2018-08-02 19:13:13 UTC  

Saul Alinsky is a socialist writer, and author of the book Rules for Radicals

2018-08-02 19:13:14 UTC  

Yes

2018-08-02 19:13:55 UTC  

It's not possible to win anymore without such tactics.

2018-08-02 19:14:07 UTC  

A lot of people treat it as some sort of cursed book. It's really mundane, but offers decent advice about changing the status quo

2018-08-02 19:14:19 UTC  

So you can either choose to use them and compete, or retain the moral high ground and lose.

2018-08-02 19:14:24 UTC  

Rules for Radicals is overrated imo.

2018-08-02 19:14:30 UTC  

I'd agree yeah

2018-08-02 19:14:37 UTC  

My perception is that it is not possible to win, then.

2018-08-02 19:14:49 UTC  

No, it's possible.

2018-08-02 19:14:53 UTC  

I don't think Alinsky tactics are some sort of moral failing

2018-08-02 19:15:00 UTC  

But it's a difficult, challenging game.

2018-08-02 19:15:05 UTC  

Resorting to the same tactics used against you in a battle of principles

2018-08-02 19:15:13 UTC  

is a pyrric victory at it's core.

2018-08-02 19:15:50 UTC  

It's a fair assessment. And you're right, you have to temper your movements with principle.

2018-08-02 19:16:05 UTC  

But in some sense it's also a prisoner's dilemma.

2018-08-02 19:16:07 UTC  

i don't know about "the press" but acosta is very much an "enemy of the people"

2018-08-02 19:16:15 UTC  

I don't think it's unprincipled to demand consistency from organizations based on the rules they've set

2018-08-02 19:16:40 UTC  

I think the twitter mobbing is a bit dumb, but I think the core request is fine

2018-08-02 19:17:07 UTC  

"you live by the rules you make for others" is very much a principle

2018-08-02 19:17:08 UTC  

At some point you have to evaluate the battlefield and come to the conclusion that the old tactics don't work anymore. The British couldn't line up in neat ranks in bright red uniforms, stand up straight and trade volleys with the Boers because the Boers were not going to play by those rules.

2018-08-02 19:17:28 UTC  

They'd snipe individually from cover, in the prone, wearing camo.

2018-08-02 19:17:50 UTC  

No amount of gentlemanly conduct is going to defeat that.

2018-08-02 19:17:55 UTC  

Do you see a difference between approaching NYT and telling them they're hypocrites for hiring someone, and conveying to the people at large that NYT are hypocrites for their actions?

2018-08-02 19:18:22 UTC  

Yes and no.

2018-08-02 19:18:22 UTC  

I do. It's ever-so-subtle, but it's there.

2018-08-02 19:18:26 UTC  

The audience is different.