Message from @Atkins
Discord ID: 505458528643973121
Then X, wanting a deal, makes some concession, then Trump is all smiles and sunshine, and a new better deal is negotiated.
The first step from Trump is always to shit on whoever he wants to make a deal with.
And it's been working really well if you're honest about it.
New NAFTA, new trade deal with EU, NATO agreed to increase spending, peace talks with NK,
@JustTom , I think all nations expect to be treated with respect. We certainly appreciated their support after 9/11.
Remember the only nation to invoke Article 5 of NATO is the US
Bush Sr and Jr showed how diplomacy works for the US
Reagan solidified a world order that has helped us
Why are we flushing all their work down the toilet now?
we're not
you are just incapable of realizing what negotiation looks like from a position of strength.
Leaving NATO should never even be an option
Trump is getting NATO to spend ***more***
Europe wants out of nato
It's like divorce. You just never put it on the table.
They arent even meeting the requirements as outlined by the treaty
And Trump got NATO to spend ***more*** by threatening to leave.
The world is in a different position, the US is in a different position, we need a new organization. You can't just keep doing the same thing as always and expect it to always work. Trump recognizes this and is trying to renegoatiate and fix old treaties and deals that are no longer functional or fair, and that we're simply being used through.
The fact that Trump's got the guts, negotiating skills, and BALLS, to actually step up and do it, is why people who aren't crazy lefties tend to love his stance.
not always, but usually.
Why should we respect them if they dont want to follow the guidelines of our agreements?
Pyrrhic Victory
It's not a Pyrrhic victory if a) NATO still exists and b) is materially stronger
Is that really the way we want to be seen in the world? As bullies?
You are not paying attention to the facts and are instead paying attention to emotion
We are already seen that way
All I care about is results.
What facts?
That they resent us?
That NATO still exists and is getting militarily stronger.
Take your pick of nations, south korea, japan, france
they see the US as a bully thats trying to control them
CatToday at 3:11 PM
It's like divorce. You just never put it on the table.
so if you're in a bad relationship where your significant other beats you regularly, abuses your children, you're the one working while your partner leeches off of you to go out and get drunk and cheat on you, etc. etc. etc.
Nope, Divorce can't be on the table! You just never put it on the table!
Sometimes it takes a divorce for the other person to start addressing their issues
In that case you divorce. It's not a negotiating tactic. You just do it.
Okay, then that's what Trump needs to do.
The United States is the World Hegemon but it has no clear and present threat against the world as a whole
I don't see what's so awful about saying "Start spending what you agreed to spend or the agreement is over"
But Europe has fulfilled their end of the bargain. Article 5 after 9/11.
I'm not saying that our deals are quite as bad as I've cited in my divorce comparison, but they ARE bad. So your stance is that Trump should just back out of all of them, period.
No they havent